41

[j]

even though it's not a contest, who does everyone think the CPC's 41 cards will be?

1) Killer Queen
2) Jack of Diamonds
3) Gunnar
4) Sentinel
5) Exo-King
6) Prince Zed
7) Excalibur
8) (someone new joining Exo-King)
9) the Collector
10) the Czar (Kulak)
11) Yuri the Strong (Gordo)
12) Sergei the Fierce
13) Xenia
14) Colby / Pelf
15) Brainstorm
16) Daeman
17) Prodigy (yeah, I think we'll get 1 more year outta the old guy)
18) Velar
19) Franco Jesterelli
20) Vidtek
21) Dante
22) Comedy
23) JJ Smooth
24) Taurine
25) Romulus
26) Dr. Barnabas
27) Rubicon
28) Nero
29) Hadrian
30) Gila
31) Puma
32) Talon
33) Quetzal
34) Willow
35) Raze
36) Talisman
37) T.K.
38) Indigo
39) Viggo
40) Grunge
41) Splatter
42) Shylock
43) Blizzard
44) Stigma
45) Pendekar
46) Fata Morgana
47) the Dominator
48) Rhiannon
49) Cypher
50) Euritar
51) Mike Fortune
52) Wildcat
53) Tiberius Prell

WOW, I'm not even close but I can't figure out outta this 53 who will be cut. Most likely Wildcat, Daeman and Prodigy, but who will joins Colby's team then? maybe Euritar?

[Trent Lawless]

Just to clarify for all the guessers out there, the 41 people are active wrestlers, not including non-wrestlers like managers and commissioners. Be my guest to speculate on who they are, but don't think you're getting any prizes outta me. I just work here!

[Reptillo]

So the CPC is an inferior, less experienced, less watched, less followed, less invested fed and they have more active participants than the GWF despite the cosmic depression?

The CPC should shed every single former gwf wrestler and the roster should be no more than 24 guys right now.

What a crock. Shame on you mark!

[j]

I think that since Colby and Pelf have money experience managing money is one reason why they could have more wrestlers.

The second reason is the quality of wrestlers each company employs. I imagine top GWF stars, like Endgame, Bloodline and Disaster, may make 2-3 times as much money as some top CPC guys, like Shylock and Brainstorm. So it comes down to the CPC paying less money for a few more guys on the roster.

[Joe]

That is a good point. Endgame probably pulls down more than anyone in the CPC with the exception of maybe Jack of Diamonds or Raven. People are reading too much into this whole number of wrestlers thing. Just remember, in the dying days of WCW, they had so many guys on the official roster that no one knew what the hell was going on with any of them.

[Tom]

I agree that people may be reading too much into the numbers game. I'd like to add---and I haven't mentioned this yet, but why not---the GWF will be keeping some wrestlers employed at their new training facility on Cetus called The GWF Zone. This allows the GWF to save some money and still give wrestlers some work while they ride out the Great Depression of 2119. These guys will be training new talent and wrestling some indy shows, kind of a fed within a fed. When you add these wrestlers to the GWF roster it'll exceed 50.

But, like others have said, this numbers game is a bit superficial. There's far more to a federation than the number of people on its active roster in any one year.

[Trent Lawless]

Guest-Reptillo said:

So the CPC is an inferior, less experienced, less watched, less followed, less invested fed and they have more active participants than the GWF despite the cosmic depression?

The CPC should shed every single former gwf wrestler and the roster should be no more than 24 guys right now.

What a crock. Shame on you mark!

Okay, not to be blunt, but walk a mile in my writing mocassins, and then say that.

You don't know what Tom and I have talked about behind the scenes or what's coming in subsequent sets, or the multitude of changes I have already made from my initial writing of the 2119 set to what Tom had asked me to do for storyline continuity (which I'm fine with). If it had been the way I initially had written it, the CPC would have 11 more people than the GWF instead of 4 more.

Anyone who has heard me talk at GalactiCon and even on these message boards knows that my style is to plan as much in advance as possible. I had the end of the Conspirator story in mind when I was writing the 2112 set, and I knew the end of the Deception storyline with Michiko Ishida being betrayed by her father a set before I even introduced her. So obviously, before Tom instituted the economic depression angle, I already had plans for the 2119-2121 era that were already in motion. If I had had to drop or seriously rework those storylines, not only do I feel the subsequent product wouldn't have been as good, but people would have been confused as to the abrupt changes or dropping of storylines. I don't want to work that way.

But since Tom quite rightly has the prerogative to call the shots for things like galaxy-wide economic depressions, I have to be willing to be flexible and fit what I'm doing into that. That's what I've done already, but since the original draft of Savagery 2119 isn't going to be released for public consumption, nobody knows that, or didn't until now.

24 wrestlers? Get rid of all ex-GWF talent? I can tell you the first will never happen on my watch, because that's just not enough cards for most people to work with. You can only have the same guys go against each other so many times before it gets tedious. But the number will always be manageable, that I can promise. And until their storylines play out, the ex-GWF guys won't be gone before their time.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!

[Joe]

I am glad that both Tom and Mark weighed in on this discussion, now hopefully it can be laid to rest. The whole idea about dumping former GWF wrestlers and cutting more people just so that the GWF can have more active wrestlers is, for lack of a better word, stupid. I normally wouldn't be that out there with a comment, but that is the best way to describe the idea.

If Tom wants to trim the roster, which I am definitely in favor of, and wants to use the economic depression as the backdrop for it, more power to him. If Mark wants to do a little less trimming, and use the money management skills of Colby and Pelf as rationale for that, God bless him. At least both scenarios make sense, and folks should be happy with that.

[Thad Killian]

I agree with Joe...I have written several fanzines and set storylines that have taken months to unfold...it totally blows when things change...No, I don't agree with "Reptilo" on the fact that ex-GWF's should be dropped and it scaled back to 24... that becomed extremely drab about a month into the game year... keep up the good work Tom and Mark...

[Mr. Jimmyface]

Guest-Reptillo said:

So the CPC is an inferior, less experienced, less watched, less followed, less invested fed and they have more active participants than the GWF despite the cosmic depression?

The CPC should shed every single former gwf wrestler and the roster should be no more than 24 guys right now.

What a crock. Shame on you mark!

Uh, shouldn't you be losing a match to Brute right now?

[abe froman]

They told the guestbook reptillo
They told him to walk a mile in the sand
And they told him to wear some old moccasins
And the CPC will never bow and I laughed

Would reptillo please back up his points?
I know he wasn’t the best poster that there ever was
But we all know that the CPC is top-notch
And not a crock

Mark is always storytelling
And everything is always storytelling
And you are always storytelling
And I am always storytelling

Would reptillo please back up his points?
I know he wasn’t the best poster that there ever was
But we all know that the CPC is top-notch
And not a crock

[Darth Turkish]

LarsToxik said:

Uh, shouldn't you be losing a match to Brute right now?

Classic!

[Swarm]

MarkCPC said:

If it had been the way I initially had written it, the CPC would have 11 more people than the GWF instead of 4 more.

Anyone who has heard me talk at GalactiCon and even on these message boards knows that my style is to plan as much in advance as possible. I had the end of the Conspirator story in mind when I was writing the 2112 set, and I knew the end of the Deception storyline with Michiko Ishida being betrayed by her father a set before I even introduced her. So obviously, before Tom instituted the economic depression angle, I already had plans for the 2119-2121 era that were already in motion. If I had had to drop or seriously rework those storylines, not only do I feel the subsequent product wouldn't have been as good, but people would have been confused as to the abrupt changes or dropping of storylines. I don't want to work that way.

24 wrestlers? Get rid of all ex-GWF talent? I can tell you the first will never happen on my watch, because that's just not enough cards for most people to work with. You can only have the same guys go against each other so many times before it gets tedious. But the number will always be manageable, that I can promise. And until their storylines play out, the ex-GWF guys won't be gone before their time.

So NEW BEGINNINGS has only 4 more wrestlers than what you describe as "just not enough cards for most people to work with. You can only have the same guys go against each other so many times before it becomes tedious"...

No.1, I think Tom's first set and IT'S 24 cards worked out pretty well since it's 18 years later and we are talking about it.

No.2, it's QUALITY over quantity. That includes having 7-10 active characters in your "advanced" story-lines THAT DO NOT HAVE PLAYING CARDS.

Here is a list of 24 wrestlers the cpc could have and the fed would be awesome, if I wrote it.

RUBICON
NERO
HADRIAN
PUMA
SABATOUR
SHYLOCK
MENSAR
CORDANUS
MIKE FORTUNE
JACK OF DIAMONDS
ANGST
TAURINE
ROMULUS
CYPHER
BRAINSTORM
PRINCE ZED
THAYNE
DAR GOVA
TALISMAN
ANHU
ORION
DANTE
STIGMA
COMEDY

mark, can you honestly tell me you have so little faith in your writing that you couldnt work with those, and only those names? Of course, the GWF guys would need updates. Inherit thier history, not JUST thier playing card if you must you them.

Its not really that hard to understand.

[Joe]

Swarm-

I don't know if Mark understands you, but I sure the hell am confused.

The number Mark stated as too few was 24. There will be 37 cards in New Beginning. I may be wrong, but I haven't seen anything about only 28 of the cards in the set being wrestlers. That said, I don't get the 4 more cards statement.

Also, when you talk about what kind of incredible plotlines you could script if you used the 24 wrestlers that you listed. By my count, 14 of those awesome-story producing characters were created by Mark Ashby, someone who it seems you have very little use for as a writer. Three of the characters you listed have actually not debuted yet, so I do not know how you can be so confident that you would churn out excellent stories for a character that you know nothing about.

Finally, when discussing the original COTG edition, it should be noted that while it may have "worked out pretty well", to imply that it is still talked about 18 years after its release because 24 was a perfect number for a fed or because it was the best GWF set produced would be very inaccurate.

[Old Schooler]

I totally agree with Swarm. There are too many "behind-the-scenes" angles in the CPC. Wrestling should be about being the best and winning titles and fueds against your blood enemies. 24 is more than enough guys to run a fed. Case and point, the original game and obviously New Beginnings will have roughly the same amount (I think). The GWF castoffs are having less and less to do in the storylines yet they seem to be the ones holding the titles in the Promoter. Also, Mark it seems in the last 3-4 sets one guy has at least a -5 pw or ag rating. It's getting a little ridiculous. And if not, then they have some incredible ability like Ahnu, who cannot submit. Disaster, a trans-evolved Aethran can submit but not an Asian Earthling? We need more guys like Euritar, nothing flashy just bad ass wrestlers with no special power.

[Chris Ingersoll]

Guest-Old said:

And if not, then they have some incredible ability like Ahnu, who cannot submit.

Pendekar. I know, I get the names confused all the time too because they're so similar.

If you don't like the rule, ignore it. Welcome to CotG.

[j]

Guest-Old said:

I totally agree with Swarm. There are too many "behind-the-scenes" angles in the CPC. Wrestling should be about being the best and winning titles and fueds against your blood enemies. 24 is more than enough guys to run a fed. Case and point, the original game and obviously New Beginnings will have roughly the same amount (I think). The GWF castoffs are having less and less to do in the storylines yet they seem to be the ones holding the titles in the Promoter. Also, Mark it seems in the last 3-4 sets one guy has at least a -5 pw or ag rating. It's getting a little ridiculous. And if not, then they have some incredible ability like Ahnu, who cannot submit. Disaster, a trans-evolved Aethran can submit but not an Asian Earthling? We need more guys like Euritar, nothing flashy just bad ass wrestlers with no special power.

New Beginging will have 37 cards, that's quite a bit more than 24. So I guess Tom thinks 24 is too few also. By only having 24 cards I'd get bored real quick with having the same match over and over. That's why we had expansion sets to the 1st set. If 24 cards were enough we may not of had a second set.

By the way, Pendekar is the Asian Earthling who won't submit not Ahnu. While I don't completely agree making him unable too submit. Amazing Mann in the GWF is very similar, Mark probably should have done something more like that. I do like that he has something different like that, and Prince Zed's pin reversal, going on. It keeps things fresh.

[Mr. Jimmyface]

Wow - whole lotta guests with minor intelligence and no commitment chiming in on a closed subject these days. It amazes me when people don't have the guts to register on a free site, yet still think their opinion matters. While my opinion is a KISS record, at least I have the guts to register, instead of hiding behind different identities.

And, by the way...

24 IS TOO FEW, YOU IGNORANT (CENSORED)!!! I'm sorry that big numbers terrify you and remind you of your childhood trauma of failing third grade, but if you want to play with small numbers, then do so. Don't think that an ignorant "anonymous" poser poster like you knows what's best for COTG.

Tom and Mark know what is best for COTG. They have done an amazing job for years. Granted, I do not always agree with characters, angles, cards, and feuds they come up with. But they have consistantly written quality material, came up with amazing characters that seldom fail to excite, and keep me interested in playing the game edition after edition. As a consumer, I wished half of the companies I deal with put as much effort into their product as these guys do.

Hey. Reptillo Swarm Old Schooler Jingleheimer Schmidt, why not register? Unless you truly are a coward.

[incognito]

All right big boy you've piqued my interest. You and your evil twin barge in here saying only 24 wrestlers are needed in the CPC and all GWF wrestlers should go (although I couldn't help but note almost half the werstlers on you list are GWF originals.). lets see your theater-in-the-round with the dirty two dozen. I say Mark has done a pretty good job, if you think you can do better I want to know.

[Joe]

I have already stated my opinion about the "24 is enough" matter. Now I would like to address Old Schooler's comment about (-5) power and agility guys. He says that there are now so many it is ridiculous, but I only counted three, and one of them is Enigma. Boy, that sure is whole lot!

If you are going to be critical about Mark's characters being too strong, which I think is far from true, you must think the GWF is overrun with monsters. I mean, Endgame has double (-3s) and finishers of (+2) and (+3). Bloodline has a roll finisher that hits 83% of the time, a (+1) finisher, a PIN of 2 and one down. These are two examples of super-strong cards, but there are plenty more I could go into.

Now that I have that out of my system, I have a question about Pendekar. To my understanding, Pendekar's submission rating never adds fatigue to it. However, does a submission finisher's rating get added each time it is applied?