GWF 2087 redux

[Knapik]

I've been mulling this over for a while and wanted to run it by you guys. I wanted to take the old school cards and update the stats and also update the cards to fit within the modern rules. Maybe change a couple finishers and make the cards a little more modern... the year IS 2087 after all

Any thoughts? Cool idea? Lame?

[mft]

I make backups of my cards just in case they are damanged (flood, fire, etc). While redoing them, I've always been tempted to "tweak" the stats, esp. the first set to have them meet current card guidlines

(With apologies to Mike M), I've tweaked several of the EC guys to conform with Filsinger card guidelines.

Plus, you have to admit, Pulsar's WHIRLWIND is a bit outdated! (Although it would be cool to see that again as a finishing move).

You know I'd love to see what you come up with...

[PureHatred]

Are you stealing my ideas???

5) The art is sick. Banks is just...there's almost a point where I wish Tom would think about re-releasing the older editions with new art (like he did with some of the LOW cards) just to see what Darryl could do with the legenday characters.

Seriously..I think it's a great idea..so much in fact that I've actually contacted a bootleg artist to see if they'd be interested.

If you really want to do this..and are willing to suffer the inevitable backlash from traditionalists who would be outraged when The Masterlock becomes a wear down fisniher like Kill Prey's AMBUSH..I would love to work on this with you.

If you'll have me.....

[mft]

purehatred said:

If you really want to do this..and are willing to suffer the inevitable backlash from traditionalists who would be outraged when The Masterlock becomes a wear down fisniher like Kill Prey's AMBUSH..I would love to work on this with you.

If you've seen the LOWBootleg of Ric Flair, he has some moves that are designed to "wear down" the opponent's leg, making the FIgure Four that more powerful. I think it would be an interesting concept for Thantos

[Knapik]

VANITY
Level 1 Offense	Level 1 Defense
1. taunt opponent - 1 2. slap to face - 1 3. running dropkick - 2 (ag) 4. body slam - 2 (pw) 5. gut wrench suplex - 2 6. atomic drop - 3 (pw)	1. hurt - 2 2. VANITY - 1 3. hurt - 2 4. VANITY - 2 5. dazed - 1 (tag) 6. dazed - 1
Level 2 Offense	Level 2 Defense
1. fingernail scratch - 2 2. wild fist to face - 2 3. into the turnbuckle 4. double knee lift - 2 (ch A) 5. reverse chinlock - 2 (ch C) 6. Cropper Slam - 3	1. hurt - 2 2. hurt - 2 3. hurt - 2 4. hurt - 2 (tag) 5. VANITY - 2 6. VANITY - 1
Level 3 Offense	Level 3 Defense
1. low blow - 2 2. deathjump (c) 3. out of the ring (c) 4. roll up with tights - 3 5. FOREIGN OBJECT (0) dis 6. PULVERIZER (+2)*	1. PIN 7 (4) 2. down - 3 3. down - 3 (lv) 4. hurt - 2 5. hurt - 2 6. down - 3 (tag)
Ropes - A Turnbuckle - C Ring - C Deathjump - C Disqualification 4	Agility -1 Power +2 Cage 6

*roll 1 die: even, Vanity lands with the elbow! Opponent rolls PIN plus finisher; odd, the opponent moves out of the way and Vanity crashes to the mat! Opponent takes over on Level 3 Offense!

---------------------------------------

Here's an idea of what I might do to change Vanity. This may be my vision of the character, let me know what you might do differently.

LEVEL 1 OFFENSE
Now with most of my picks here, I tried to envision Vanity as the prissy, hated, arrogant jerk that could still wrestle some when he was angry. I imagined him tired very early with his hair frizzed out and his face red.

I think Vanity is the sort of guy who would play mind games and taunt his opponent early on, hence the 'taunt opponent - 1'. This could work and give Vanity the early advantage or blow up in his face and he'll enrage his oppponent. Slap to face also seemed appropriate for an early move for the character. I changed 'flying dropkick' to 'running dropkick' as I see a missle dropkick from Vanity more a Level 3 move, and I can see a running dropkick being sidestepped as Vanity humorously falls to the mat! I changed 'gut wrench' to 'gut wrench suplex' to help avoid any confusion. I moevd atomic drop up to Level 1 - I see this as a humiliation move that should never work on the strong guys, so I made sure it had (pw) after it, like boxing jabs did on the original card.

LEVEL 2 OFFENSE
Didn't do too much changing here, just made sure things were in accordance with the rules. Changed some moves - fingernail scratch seems perfect for Vanity and wild fist to face is basically moved up from Level 3 on the original card, with 'wild' added to emphasize his unorthodox brawling style. I moved the Cropper Slam to Level 2 basically because of changes to Level 3 Offense; but it also will be used more often, which will irritate the fans and the Space Croppers!

LEVEL 3 OFFENSE
I heeled this part out, adding 'roll up with tights' and a FOREIGN OBJECT finisher to make for some cool angle opportunities. The Pulverizer gets a slight bump in power but misses half of the time. I thought this was perfect for the character as seeing him miss would pop the crowd and I can see him missing a lot.

CHARTS
I thought they were perfect, so I left them alone.

DEFENSE
Slight downrade on Level 1 Offense (I see him getting beat up early) and a slight bump on Level 3 Defense (many matches with him have been ruined because he is so unable to get up on Level 3 Defense) with one 'down - 3' taken away.

AG/PW
Bumps here. With all the high-flying I thought -1 was appropriate and +2 isn't very strong, but he looks tougher than +3 to me.

Overall, this is an upgrade for him, but not by too much. Let me know what you think... should I do more?

[Knapik]

purehatred said:

Are you stealing my ideas???

5) The art is sick. Banks is just...there's almost a point where I wish Tom would think about re-releasing the older editions with new art (like he did with some of the LOW cards) just to see what Darryl could do with the legenday characters.

Seriously..I think it's a great idea..so much in fact that I've actually contacted a bootleg artist to see if they'd be interested.

If you really want to do this..and are willing to suffer the inevitable backlash from traditionalists who would be outraged when The Masterlock becomes a wear down fisniher like Kill Prey's AMBUSH..I would love to work on this with you.

If you'll have me.....

PH - I dont mind the backlash, let me know what you think of Vanity. I've had lots of things in mind for the characters! I dont so much want to change their moves into more modern ones and certainly dont want to change who they ARE... but with rule changes and new concepts added, I think this could be awesome.

[mft]

I always thought Vanity may have a better Deathjump rating, maybe a B

[Knapik]

mft said:

I always thought Vanity may have a better Deathjump rating, maybe a B

I thought about that too, but my rational was that I can see him often being crushed by a top rope move. Maybe a 'B' would be better.

[welsh]

Keep the C.

The main danger with the original 24 is that everyone loves them and wants them to be improved. Vanity, Beast Rider, Pulsar and Mutant were supposed to be undercard bums, that's what made the 1st set so rounded.

I do like what Knapik has done though (not with his avatar...bring back Kill Prey !! Take down the Glory Hole !! ) and made Vanity's finishers either Dis or likely to miss. He is a heel's heel, unable to win without cheating.

My only problem that a mechanic for the Masterlock would be good but...it's the original +4, it defined the best finisher, and since it there have only been 2 or 3 pure +4 guarantees and they are really special. When I think of Thantos, what defines him for me is the great picture obvioulsy, but next is the +4 Masterlock.

My own redux thoughts...Pit Viper should be Ring A instead of C as he is supposed to be hardcore, the Glads and the Greek Gods need a tag finisher, I would like to see Exo King's finisher work like Tanck's vise, and more be made out of the fact the Royal Court have robotic parts.

[GalactiKing]

Nice Vanity.....I agree that Pit Viper needs the A ring rating. He and Renegade are probably the two classic examples of guys who's cards don't match their d\escrip. I agree that Pulsar/Beast-Rider/Omega/Death Knight and Mutant shouldn't be made too much better though Ghengis Khan should be slightly better IMO. I like the Exo emphaiss on robotics and it wouldn't be bad to use the Iron Man Vise mechanic on it. Looking forward to more.
(Also if for nothing else..updating it will change the fact that almost all the cards from the first two sets use a majority of the same moves)

[Holland227]

I love the Vanity card. That is quality work. I agree with his appearance and style. Love the heelish output.

[cyclehog2121]

Love the changes but i don't think 2 finishers. That makes him more than the undercard bum that he is. Maybe the foreign object +1 with a dq?

[Knapik]

welsh said:

Keep the C.

The main danger with the original 24 is that everyone loves them and wants them to be improved. Vanity, Beast Rider, Pulsar and Mutant were supposed to be undercard bums, that's what made the 1st set so rounded.

I do like what Knapik has done though (not with his avatar...bring back Kill Prey !! Take down the Glory Hole !! ) and made Vanity's finishers either Dis or likely to miss. He is a heel's heel, unable to win without cheating.

My only problem that a mechanic for the Masterlock would be good but...it's the original +4, it defined the best finisher, and since it there have only been 2 or 3 pure +4 guarantees and they are really special. When I think of Thantos, what defines him for me is the great picture obvioulsy, but next is the +4 Masterlock.

My own redux thoughts...Pit Viper should be Ring A instead of C as he is supposed to be hardcore, the Glads and the Greek Gods need a tag finisher, I would like to see Exo King's finisher work like Tanck's vise, and more be made out of the fact the Royal Court have robotic parts.

Very nice post! I agree with the Masterlock and TOTALLY agree with Pit Viper having an 'A' offense. I think about that every time I play his card. Good idea with the King too. Some sweet ideas!

[Knapik]

cyclehog2121 said:

Love the changes but i don't think 2 finishers. That makes him more than the undercard bum that he is. Maybe the foreign object +1 with a dq?

Yeah that's not a bad idea. The reason I made it a finisher was to cause some controversial finishes, but this could happen with an add 1 move as well. When I do the final version, I'll probably take your advice on this.

[Wildfire]

Great job Knapik! I really like the moveset.. TOTALLY works.

I agre with mft that DJ should be a B... he is an agility based guy.

I think this card is still pretty much a jobber.... I get 13(19) on the Rahl rating.. that's lower than ANYONE in NB (except Plethador and Simitar)

If you were gonna make the foreign object an add 1, I'd make the finisher hit more often (maybe 2-10 adjusted by opponents ag, like LAST CALL) so he's not TOO bad

[MikeMcKinney]

I really like that Vanity card, Knapik.

[wildcat]

I'm atraditional per say I guess since I've been around since the very beginning but I think this is a kickass idea. There's so many new mechanics that have come around since 2087. I think there's some people from the early years that should have add +1' and such. Keep it rolling...............

[mft]

I'm still wondering why Jon chose Vanity first.....

[caseyjonespitbull]

wildcat said:

There's so many new mechanics that have come around since 2087. I think there's some people from the early years that should have add +1' and such. Keep it rolling...............

This is a terrible idea. Why is everyone so obssessed with adding mechanics to every card out there? Every bootleg I see has multiple mechanics. It's overkill and it takes away from the core of the characters.

[GOODZILLA]

mft said:

I'm still wondering why Jon chose Vanity first.....

I think maybe he was trying to appeal to some of the newer players that maybe have never seen the original set. Someone like Vanity would obviously appeal to anyone who likes Havoc from the current sets. (except that Vanity is a much better wrestler) I consider Jon Knapik a genius if this is really why he chose to start with Vanity.