MSU prof b**** slaps Muslim Student's Association

[swarm]

Warning: This post is not meant to offend anyone, and I'm simply posting because I totally agree with it, and since it came from Michigan State University, I'm sure almost no one here knows about it...

if you are very political, and tend to get into heated personal arguments with others when discussing politics, then don't read this...

otherwise, enjoy...
_______________________________________________

Hooray for Michigan State University (The Spartans) and Professor Wichman!!!

Well, what do we have here. Looks like a small case of some people being able to dish it out, but not take it. Let's start at the top. The story begins at Michigan State University with a mechanical engineering professor named Indrek Wichman.

Wichman sent an e-mail to the Muslim Student's Association. The e-mail was in response to the students' protest of the Danish cartoons that portrayed the Prophet Muhammad as a terrorist. The group had complained the cartoons were "hate speech."

Enter Professor Wichman. In his e-mail, he said the following:
_________________________________________________

Dear Moslem Association:

As a professor of Mechanical Engineering here at MSU I intend to protest your protest. I am offended not by cartoons, but by more mundane things like beheadings of civilians, cowardly attacks on public buildings, suicide murders, murders of Catholic priests (the latest in Turkey), burnings of Christian churches, the continued persecution of Coptic Christians in Egypt, the imposition of Sharia law on non-Muslims, the rapes of Scandinavian girls and women (called "whores" in your culture), the murder of film directors in Holland, and the rioting and looting in Paris France.

This is what offends me, a soft-spoken person and academic, and many, many, many of my colleagues. I counsel you dissatisfied, aggressive, brutal, and uncivilized slave-trading Moslems to be very aware of this as you proceeded with your infantile "protests." If you do not like the values of the West — see the 1st Amendment — you are free to leave.

I hope for God's sake that most of you choose that option.

Please return to your ancestral homelands and build them up yourselves instead of troubling Americans.

Cordially,

I. S. Wichman, Professor of Mechanical Engineering

[gatekeeper]

Totally agree. Very well written by the MSU prof.

[blueraider1]

right on brother. to the m.s.a love it or leave it.

[Trent Lawless]

Meh. He went a little far, IMO, although I think the cartoons have just as much right to exist as anything else.

The "love it or leave it" idea doesn't sit right with me, either, for many reasons I won't get into. I'll just say there are some people who probably should leave (but can't for whatever reason), but simply expressing one's opinion -- even these Muslim students -- is no reason to kick them out of the country. Where do you draw the line on what opinion/speech is okay? And who gets to make that decision?

Sticky sticky questions. I don't have the answers, nor do I want them.

Carry on.

[steviedreamer]

To Mark CPC: Oh hun- I go along with ur views. You were always more tender and soft-hearted than the EVIL Swarm.

[Chewey]

I won't go into the content of the e-mail, as per Swarm's disclaimer before he posted it...

but I do think that even in a country where freedom of speech is one of our most treasured rights, the professor was still irresponsible for sending it out to a student organization at the school that he works at. A professor (granted he was a mechie rather than liberal arts) telling students to go back to their homelands (most of whom are probably Americans anyway) is just as irresponsible as Ozzie Guillen getting himself fined for calling people he doesn't like homosexuals.

Let the players get fined for opening their mouths. Let the students do the b**** slapping of other students.

Professors and managers of professional sports teams should stay out of that spotlight.

[Matt]

While the professor in question may not have used sound judgment with respect to his job, I fully commend him for his honest (and correct IMO) statement.

[canadianpittbull]

I see nothing wrong with his comments. Truth hurts I guess.

[offspring515]

This reminds me of logic i've seen somewhere before...."If you don't support the war in Iraq 100% you support terrorism and hope the US is attacked again." "If you think these cartoons are hate speech you support terrorist attacks and murder."

Perhaps the professor is a big fan of W.

[ThePunisher]

Hey and the Pope has this Professor's back. Not bad support if I say so myself.

I've heard all sorts of opinions on where Islam is headed but I know if a Christian bombed a mall or an office building because someone drew a picture of Jesus, I'd have a problem with that too.

Religion is great and all (I am a believer of Christianity), but it causes some big fricking problems on this rock.

What a paradox. Believe it to bring you hope and goodness yet defend it so brutally that you become a mass murderer.

No one gets it anymore...

[gwffantrav]

offspring515 said:

This reminds me of logic i've seen somewhere before...."If you don't support the war in Iraq 100% you support terrorism and hope the US is attacked again." "If you think these cartoons are hate speech you support terrorist attacks and murder."

Perhaps the professor is a big fan of W.

Sigh

[Chewey]

well Offspring, here's the ironic thing...

These students, presumably most of whom were American, were trying to get the message across that just because a few psychos are associated with their religion doesn't mean that they themselves are terrorists.

And then the professor goes out and calls them all "aggressive, brutal, and uncivilized slave-trading Moslems." And then he tells these Americans to go back to their own country.

Yes, I believe in freedom of speech. But that doesn't mean that the professor's e-mail wasn't completely ignorant.

[canadianpittbull]

The scary thing is, this past weekend I was up late and decided to watch CBC National News and I swear the majority of it was about Muslims burning, killing, pillaging and blowing crap up over the Pope's comments or just in general. Anger management anyone? What is crazy is one moment some are saying we are viewed in a poor light and in the next second a handful of atrocities happen by some of their own. Somewhere the cycle has to be broken.

[offspring515]

Great rebuttal Trav. Don't ban me, being a liberal if I didn't have this board to goof around on I'd probably go participate in a gay marriage or an abortion. And then all religion and civilization as we know it would CRUMBLE! CRUMBLE I SAY!

I await a severe quoting/emoticoning.

On a serious note, i'm afraid of the world we live in today. The news is enough to make me want to bury my head in the sand...I don't, but damn I want to sometimes.

Despite any political BS (like the stuff I wrote above to trav) I think we can all agree that there is too much anger and hatred in our world. I feel this prof's letter was simply spreading more of that around. I think that as an educated man he could find a better way to make his point without resorting to "Love 'er or leave 'er!"

[Chewey]

well, here's another reason why this professor was a moron (and this is more procedural rather than about the substance of the e-mail.)

He said after the controversy arose that he never would have used such strong language if he thought that a lot of people were going to read it. Come on now, he's supposed to be a highly educated professor that should know better. Tafkaga learned it himself that nothing is safe over e-mail. And the professor sent it to the Muslim Student's Association's e-mail address where like twenty people have access to it - and he addressed it to the whole group rather than one individual.

but as upset as the school is about him verbally reaming out a student group like that, they've said that they can't fire him for it so he at least still has a job.

[Splattercat]

Speaking of ignorant...What's the difference between a Moslem and a Muslim..?

EDIT: Nevermind...Moslem is just a non-recommended spelling of Muslim...So which side used the incorrect spelling, the professor or the "Moslem Association"..?

[swarm]

aaron168 said:

well, here's another reason why this professor was a moron (and this is more procedural rather than about the substance of the e-mail.)

He said after the controversy arose that he never would have used such strong language if he thought that a lot of people were going to read it. Come on now, he's supposed to be a highly educated professor that should know better. Tafkaga learned it himself that nothing is safe over e-mail. And the professor sent it to the Muslim Student's Association's e-mail address where like twenty people have access to it - and he addressed it to the whole group rather than one individual.

but as upset as the school is about him verbally reaming out a student group like that, they've said that they can't fire him for it so he at least still has a job.

eh...take it with a grain of salt...I'm sure he knew damn well everyone would read it...

him saying he didn't is probably no more than what he was advised to say once the pot was stirred...

and no, he cannot be fired as he is tenured.

[pikemojo]

Honestly, what I see out of all these Muslim groups is this...There are all these terrible, terrible things that are happening all around the world in the name of their religion and you really don't hear anything about them denouncing it. Sure you see a few on the news saying that Islam is a peaceful religion but the next week we see another car bomb or terror attempt. Instead of protesting a cartoon that was not that big of a deal in the first place they should be protesting these terrorists and trying to prove that Islam IS about peace. They could be doing so much good if all of the Muslims that say they are good would join together and do some good around the world.
As a Christian, I feel it is my duty to try to put to rest the bad stereotypes about Christians by living my life in a way that shows what being a Christian is all about. Christ wants us to act in a way that he would act and I try to do that in my everyday life. Now if Muslims would act the way they say Mohammed wanted them to then we would have some Muslims doing really terrible things all around the world and we would have some really great Muslims doing really great things around the world.

[BDS]

swarm said:

I counsel you dissatisfied, aggressive, brutal, and uncivilized slave-trading Moslems to be very aware of this as you proceeded with your infantile "protests."

This sentence is what I have the problem with; this is WAY too broad a brush to use in painting an entire religion and its hundreds of millions of followers. Representing all of Islam by the actions of their radical fringe is like representing all of Christianity by the actions of the KKK. That statement is analagous to calling followers of Christ "violent, lynching, and racist Christians," something that I'd take great offense to.

I don't really have a problem with most of what else is in the letter. The prof thinks that the crimes he's mentioned are more heinous and worthy of protest than the cartoons, and he's entitled to his opinion. He thinks that if people don't like the USA, then they need to go where they'll be happy, which is likewise his opinion and he's entitiled to it. The statement I quoted is ignorant and hateful, though, and one would think that as an "academic" he'd be smart enough to realize that.

[gatekeeper]

Well, I took it as the prof was referring to a certain group of Muslims. He doesn't say "you Muslims" he says, "you dissatisfied, aggressive, brutal, and uncivilized slave-trading Moslems. "

I can see how you took it that way, though.

It's hilarious to me that there are people of every religion who go out and commit murder and think it's justified, because they're doing "God's work." The radical Muslims are just the latest group of a religious sect to commit violent acts in the name of God.

There have been wars between religious groups and even within the same religion. Catholic-Protestant, Sunni-Shiite, etc.

I took a religion class in college and all the "books" say basically the same thing. That's the ironic thing. They're all much more similar than they care to acknowledge or admit.