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Post by Pete on Jul 15, 2006 14:39:45 GMT -5
Courtesy deathvalleydriver.com which was courtesy Strong Style Spirit...
Stripped of the belt over a "visa issue"...well, that may be a first. Too bad, as with Antonio apparently out of the picture at long last and a new business model in place, New Japan showed signs of turning it around, at least from an in-ring standpoint.
The booking of the IWGP title has been in complete shambles going on 3 years now. First it was Antonio Inoki's obsession with forcing wrestlers into shootfights, now it's Simon's pet project, who turned out to be a lazy, unmotivated meathead and a complete failure as champion both from a match quality and drawing standpoint. Now we've got another title vacancy and the next champ, regardless of who he is, is going to have some major credibility issues to overcome.
They seemed to be building to Brock dropping the title to Hiroshi Tanahashi...I would imagine either he'll get the title or it'll go to Giant Bernard/A-Train, who'll act as Surrogate Brock until Tanahashi is ready to run with the belt.
(And a tournament just before the G-1 Climax? Why not just give the belt to the *winner* of the G-1? I guess they want to use that to build up a challenger, but it's still awfully funny-looking from a kayfabe standpoint...)
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Post by Mad Dog on Jul 15, 2006 14:54:16 GMT -5
I doubt this hurts them much. For those that went through 2004 this shouldn't be a big deal for them. I see the belt going on Tanahashi or Bernard from this point.
And they'll do one before the G-1 because the G-1 is usually there to determine who the big challenger will be in the fall.
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Post by pikemojo on Jul 15, 2006 16:08:10 GMT -5
I can't believe how over Bernard has been in Japan. He hardly did anything in WWE and then goes to Japan and is considered to be the next possible IWGP champ. I am amazed.
It is really too bad about Brock though. It seemed that things were really starting to turn around for New Japan. Hopefully they will be able to make the best of this situation.
Keep us updated with what happens with this.
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Post by Mad Dog on Jul 15, 2006 16:36:32 GMT -5
I'm not really that surprised by Bernard. He has two things going for him as far as Japan goes 1. his look and 2. he's decent enough in the ring. The Japanese love big huge American wrestlers. Jamal was over huge there as well.
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Post by bmurderh8s on Jul 15, 2006 19:13:27 GMT -5
I was a fan of Brock Lesner when he was with Heyman and the WWE. I wish he'd come back to the states. His moonsault was an awesome sight, especially from a guy as "huge" as he is.
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Post by Pete on Jul 15, 2006 20:00:58 GMT -5
I was a fan of Brock Lesner when he was with Heyman and the WWE. I wish he'd come back to the states. His moonsault was an awesome sight, especially from a guy as "huge" as he is. If Lesnar loved wrestling, he'd be up there with Vader in terms of the best and most over big-men workers ever. Probably better than Vader, in fact. Lesnar doesn't love wrestling, and therein lies the problem with relying on him as either a top worker or main eventer. I was about to make a post on Bernard but it ended up matching Mad Dog's almost word-for-word. No one's going to confuse him with Mitsuharu Misawa but Bernard's always been a better worker than quite a number of schlubs on the WWE roster (I'm looking at you, Chris Masters; you too, Lashley). I didn't think I'd ever see the day that he'd be talked about as an IWGP champion but he may well be the best bet at this point. He'd be far from the worst wrestler to hold that particular title. |
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Post by floydthebarber on Jul 15, 2006 20:12:53 GMT -5
Shame on Brock. Shame on Simon Inoki. Shame on NJPW. With that said, this is just another black eye in a long line of black eyes...the only difference is that this comes when New Japan looked to be buidling towards the future. The future really didn't include Brock long term...so the only real mistake is that they didn't get the belt off him 1-2 fight ago.
I agree that Giant Bernard is a very solid worker. And in Japan, his 'loud' and 'power' style would really get him over (which it has) so I don't think putting the belt on him short term is a terrible idea. They still have Tanahashi and Nakamura for the future (if those two don't bolt now...) and their junior division is the best in the world.
They've got to stop trying to make a splash with big name wrestlers (TNA?) and continue to work with what they have already (a lot of great workers, and one heck of a junior division. Make the IWGP Jr. Heavyweight Title the focus for a while...and let someone like Tanahashi or Giant Bernard slowly build the credibility of the IWGP Title back up.
Honestly, Brock has got to be one of the most selfish, ego maniacal wrestlers of the past 5 years. The way he's conducted his 'business' has been disgraceful...and hopefully the time will come where he has burned all possible bridges and his career dries up...cause this guy deserves NOTHING!
I have ZERO interest to see him in WWE or TNA or anywhere...someone really needs to clean his clock for real.
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Post by Pete on Jul 15, 2006 20:56:23 GMT -5
Simon Inoki probably will take the fall for this, and probably justifiably so, but I don't think you can blame him entirely. Even us skeptics couldn't have imagined the sheer apathy with which the Japanese fans responded to Lesnar. Nor did we expect for him to be as bad as he was in the ring--ring rust, sure, but he didn't turn in one halfway decent match while over there.
I don't know if building around the juniors is a viable option. Really, as much as we all love Liger & co., they've always been more popular in tape-trading circles than with the actual fanbase. Oh, they're more over than the cruiserweight division is here, and they can draw a nice crowd for stuff like the J-Cup and J*Crown, but there's a reason you've never seen Jushin Liger vs. Koji Kanemoto as a Tokyo Dome main event or semi-main event.
What NJPW needs more than anything is a strong, dominant run with the IWGP title for *somebody*...just about anybody. You can use Bernard as a transitional champ if you want, but once he drops it to Tanahashi or Nakamura or whomever, they're going to have to take the title and *run* with it, without the company bailing on the title run (see Tenzan) or forcing them into an unwinnable MMA fight (see Nagata).
Anyway...is Lesnar now the worst IWGP champion in history? Or does that still fall on Tadao Yasuda?
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Post by floydthebarber on Jul 15, 2006 21:30:13 GMT -5
Well said. I agree that the Jr.'s are more of a 'special attraction' right now than something to really build around as the 'top' guys are......BUT at this stage, they need to give the fans something 'different' than the murky Hvwy division. I'd argue that a few shows built around the Jr.s over the short term might take some of the focus away from the mess that is the Heavyweight division
Visiting New Japan newsboards, its the jr.s that everyone seems to talk about and love.
They should have seen after the first couple of matches that Brock was going to be a bust...and cut their losses...but they kept the Title on him WAY too long and it blew up in their face. For that Simon is to blame.
Why not? These guys are very popular...and while they don't have the cache of the big guys...the division actually means something, and they put on great matches on a far more consistant basis than the big guys. Just because they haven't really done it before doesn't mean you don't try...and now is as good a time as any. Hate to throw in a TNA reference...but compare the NWA Title situation and the X-Division Title situation...and how many times have we heard from TNA fans and critics that they SHOULD be pushing the X-Division guys? Have some of the X guys come over to Japan...and send Tanahashi and some of the Jr.s back TNA...there's too much politics in the Heavyweight divisions with the 'stars' and the 'suits' all getting their fingers in the pie and making it a mess...the 'smaller' guys just entertain (not saying there isn't politics in the jr. ranks...I hear Tiger Mask has quite the ego)
I do agree that they need to get the belt on someone and have them really showcase it and defend it. They have the horses to make it work, they just have to be creative (something I've yet to really see from New Japan)
I thought Brock might actually help them short term...but the fact that he only flew in to Japan once every 2-3 months to fight, and was gone again did nothing to help the promotion (its not like he was doing interviews or promo's from his home in the US...it was like he was on vacation).
I don't know the Japaneese 'wrestling culture' all that well...but I'd be shocked if by promoting the Jr's a bit more they'd do worse than they are now. The Japaneese Heavyweight division reminds me of the mess that is the boxing Heavyweight division...with all the politics, promoters and the different belts and different 'top 10 contenders'...while just below you've got all these fantastic fighters who are considered pound for pound the best in the world fighting in the 'lighter' ranks...THESE guys seem to be the heart and soul of New Japan, and I think they should be given the ball for a bit...boxing seems to be making out alright putting the spotlight on the smaller guys?
JMO
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Post by gwffantrav on Jul 16, 2006 8:10:59 GMT -5
I was a fan of Brock Lesner when he was with Heyman and the WWE. I wish he'd come back to the states. His moonsault was an awesome sight, especially from a guy as "huge" as he is. If Lesnar loved wrestling, he'd be up there with Vader in terms of the best and most over big-men workers ever. Probably better than Vader, in fact. Lesnar doesn't love wrestling, and therein lies the problem with relying on him as either a top worker or main eventer. I was about to make a post on Bernard but it ended up matching Mad Dog's almost word-for-word. No one's going to confuse him with Mitsuharu Misawa but Bernard's always been a better worker than quite a number of schlubs on the WWE roster (I'm looking at you, Chris Masters; you too, Lashley). I didn't think I'd ever see the day that he'd be talked about as an IWGP champion but he may well be the best bet at this point. He'd be far from the worst wrestler to hold that particular title. Pete, gotta agree with you 100% on Lesner not loving wrestling. I remember him first starting in OVW with Shelton as the Minnesota Stretching Crew and you could see that potential each week. I was amazed at him when he first came to the WWE. But I think you are right and he looked at it as a paycheck, not a love. Everyone points out about how Masters sucks, but thank you for pointing out about Lashley. For being an amateur star, he's really nothing more than a blown up stiff. |
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Post by Dustin Neal on Jul 16, 2006 16:15:06 GMT -5
I never cared for Lesner.
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Post by LWPD on Jul 16, 2006 18:23:38 GMT -5
Brock Lesnar's a real piece of work. It's a real shame too because he had the potential to really be a big star in the WWE and instead went n to ruin it. Now he's gone on to burn even his 'easy schedule' gig in NJPW. He sure hasn't done himself any favors by proving once again that he's undependable and not worth the risk to invest in.
LWPD (I remember a few months into his WWE debut being very impressed with Lesnar's combination of size, ring presence, work ethic and willingness to learn...sadly that Brock Lesnar no longer exists)
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Post by pikemojo on Jul 16, 2006 20:50:41 GMT -5
It seems like it might be a while before Brock gets any work in wrestling again.
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Post by floydthebarber on Jul 16, 2006 23:56:35 GMT -5
Me too...its a shame, cause he had ALL the tools (except for a good head on his shoulders).
Desperate times call for desperate measures. It would take a total industry blackball of this guy for him NOT to be able to find work...but considering his ego, his asking price and the bridges he's burned...at this point, its either back to the WWE (doubtful) or TNA (maybe...but they would be insane to sign him at this point...but it is TNA so...)
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Post by Chewey on Jul 17, 2006 9:26:49 GMT -5
so he went through all of that trouble of settling a lawsuit with WWE just to discontinue pro wrestling?
When will he make his MMA debut?
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Post by floydthebarber on Jul 17, 2006 11:36:54 GMT -5
I should probably start a new thread for this news...but Tanahashi defeated Giant Bernard (WWE's Albert) to win a 6 man tourney for the vacant IWGP Title last night/today.
Its a bit of a risky move as Tanahashi is not your classic Heavyweight...but the guy has star power and what I've seen of him (about 2-3 matches) I like. Hopefully NJPW can put the whole Brock Lesnar mess behind them and move forward with guys who actually want to help the company (TNA are you listening?).
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Post by Mad Dog on Jul 17, 2006 17:17:52 GMT -5
Tanahashi is the future of Japanese wrestling IMO. He's well respected by the fans and he has the inring ability. This move has needed to happen for a solid year now. It's too bad about Lesnar flaking out. He was the final piece to the NJPW puzzle this year. But I think it's a good move for them as long as he doesn't get the Tenzan treatment.
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Post by floydthebarber on Jul 18, 2006 1:04:51 GMT -5
I agree with you Mad Dog...one thing I would change is his finisher, its pretty weak...
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Post by Mad Dog on Jul 18, 2006 19:02:10 GMT -5
I also think this wasn't that big a shot to NJPW. I think NOAH losing Kobashi is a bigger hit to them than this is.
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Post by pikemojo on Jul 19, 2006 13:59:12 GMT -5
Thanks for the update Floyd. I was hoping Bernard would get his time in the sun but it was not to be. Hopefully sometime down the line he will. I honestly don't know if I have ever seen Tanahashi wrestle. I might just have to go find some footage.
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