The best finisher(s) ever

[Wildfire]

bigdaddyswank said:

jefft said:

2.) Yes, Chaos has a better overall card...but that's not the question.

But it's relevant to the question. Chaos' 0/0/0 is better than Encubus' 0/0/+1, IMO, because Chaos is going to get to roll them more often because he's got a better card. I think you have to take the card surrounding the finisher into account when talking about it's power. A +5 finisher that you rarely get to hit because the rest of the card stinks is basically worthless.

A good point... since otherwise, "Flash of Brilliance" would have to be on there.

[tombraider]

bauermann said:

tombraider said:

thantos is the man imo.

...and Neily is a Main Eventer. Again!

you betcha.

[jefft]

wildfire said:

I voted for pie, since the choice I like isn't on there. How can y'all forget...




HELLFIRE

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[/quote]

Which, TECHNICALLY, is worse than the standard +4 finishers because it can result in dq. Now BH's overall two finisher combination could be a possibility....

[jefft]

wildfire said:

bigdaddyswank said:

But it's relevant to the question. Chaos' 0/0/0 is better than Encubus' 0/0/+1, IMO, because Chaos is going to get to roll them more often because he's got a better card. I think you have to take the card surrounding the finisher into account when talking about it's power. A +5 finisher that you rarely get to hit because the rest of the card stinks is basically worthless.

A good point... since otherwise, "Flash of Brilliance" would have to be on there.

Flash of Brilliance is a terrible finisher because, well, it's a terrible finisher...he only hits it a third of the time. Guys, the question was about the finisher only...not best overall offense. If that was the case I can reverse y'alls argument and say Monad has the best 'finisher' ever because he's got the best 'offense' in the history of the game.

What really matters though is whether or not you like pie. ;D

[BDS]

I just don't think that you can separate the card the finisher is attached to from the card itself, that's all. Look at it this way:

BULLDOG RIDE is a (0) finisher. BOW OF DEFEAT is a (0) finisher. BOW OF DEFEAT is way, way better, though, because you hit it more often because it's on three slots on the card. The more often you can roll a finisher, the better that finisher is.

I think you can apply the same logic to the entire card. Chaos has a stronger card than Encubus, especially defensively, and is more likely to get to roll his finisher. It's not because he has it in three slots, mind you, but that added opportunity is still there. That's where I'm coming from.

My vote for pie stands! Seriously, don't mind me here, I'm just finding this to be an especially interesting topic of debate.

[Wildfire]

I don't care if Hellfire causes DQ's sometimes, this poll isn't "which finisher ends the most matches" its the 'best"

For me, that mean which one is the coolest to see, doesn the most damage, and is most feared by your opponent....

That says HELLFIRE. not doubt about it.

I'd put GUILTY OF TREASON in there as a close 2nd too... not all that effective against top talent, sure, but who wants to fight a guys who is trying to tie you up and humiliate you? And is pretty good at it?

[jefft]

bigdaddyswank said:

I just don't think that you can separate the card the finisher is attached to from the card itself, that's all. Look at it this way:

BULLDOG RIDE is a (0) finisher. BOW OF DEFEAT is a (0) finisher. BOW OF DEFEAT is way, way better, though, because you hit it more often because it's on three slots on the card. The more often you can roll a finisher, the better that finisher is.

I think you can apply the same logic to the entire card. Chaos has a stronger card than Encubus, especially defensively, and is more likely to get to roll his finisher. It's not because he has it in three slots, mind you, but that added opportunity is still there. That's where I'm coming from.

My vote for pie stands! Seriously, don't mind me here, I'm just finding this to be an especially interesting topic of debate.

Now, now...the BULLDOG RIDE was greatly feared in its day. ;D

[Wildfire]

jefft said:

wildfire said:

I voted for pie, since the choice I like isn't on there. How can y'all forget...




HELLFIRE

[/size]
[/quote]

Which, TECHNICALLY, is worse than the standard +4 finishers because it can result in dq. Now BH's overall two finisher combination could be a possibility....[/quote]

If you're looking for the most effective, that's a math problem, not a poll, and would be different, depending on pin rating.

[stat geek mode on]

at a pin rate of 4, consider the following:

+4 finisher ends the match 12% of the time when rolling on level 3 offense (1/6 chance to get the finisher, then, if it hits, a 72.2% chance to get the pin)

With two zeroes, its 5.6% (get the pin 16.7% of the time, and hits 1/3 rolls)

With 3 zeroes it goes up to 8.3%

Encubus' 0,0, +1 gives you 9.2%

Morpheus' two +1s gives you 9.3%

To put those in perspective, a +3 finisher wins 9.7% of the time

Endgame's +2, +3 gives you (by far the highest) at 16.6%.

Clearly, as you start the match, the big finishers are way better... however, this doesn't take into account pin tokens, which obviously accumulate faster with multiple finishers (the statistics for that would be massively complex, and, frankly, beyond me)

to give you an idea though, at a pin rating of 6,
the +4 finisher wins 14% of the time,
while the 3 zeros win 20.8% of the time...even the 2 zeros here win 13.9% of the time, very nearly the same as the +4

Even here, though, Endgame's +2 and +3 wins the most (25.8% of the time)

So while it could be debated, (depending on the quality of opponent and how much you think tokens build) whether Chaos or a +4 is better, pretty much Endgame's +2, +3 takes the cake.

[stat geek mode off]

[Dale]

Gordian Knot

[jefft]

wildfire said:

jefft said:

Which, TECHNICALLY, is worse than the standard +4 finishers because it can result in dq. Now BH's overall two finisher combination could be a possibility....

If you're looking for the most effective, that's a math problem, not a poll, and would be different, depending on pin rating.

[stat geek mode on]

at a pin rate of 4, consider the following:

+4 finisher ends the match 12% of the time when rolling on level 3 offense (1/6 chance to get the finisher, then, if it hits, a 72.2% chance to get the pin)

With two zeroes, its 5.6% (get the pin 16.7% of the time, and hits 1/3 rolls)

With 3 zeroes it goes up to 8.3%

Encubus' 0,0, +1 gives you 9.2%

Morpheus' two +1s gives you 9.3%

To put those in perspective, a +3 finisher wins 9.7% of the time

Endgame's +2, +3 gives you (by far the highest) at 16.6%.

Clearly, as you start the match, the big finishers are way better... however, this doesn't take into account pin tokens, which obviously accumulate faster with multiple finishers (the statistics for that would be massively complex, and, frankly, beyond me)

to give you an idea though, at a pin rating of 6,
the +4 finisher wins 14% of the time,
while the 3 zeros win 20.8% of the time...even the 2 zeros here win 13.9% of the time, very nearly the same as the +4

Even here, though, Endgame's +2 and +3 wins the most (25.8% of the time)

So while it could be debated, (depending on the quality of opponent and how much you think tokens build) whether Chaos or a +4 is better, pretty much Endgame's +2, +3 takes the cake.

[stat geek mode off]

Coincidentally, that 1 vote up there for Endgame...that's me.

[BDS]

Hey, I'm going to be a boob now and change my vote. It's still pie, mind you, but now it's PARALYZER flavored pie. The good one, mind you, before the Cleansing started to wear off.

[tombraider]

as long as its not havoc pie.yech .

[Pete Beck]

I went with the +4 Group...Pegasus' Project Pegasus always meant the end of the match. A FINISHER!

[Pete]

This is easy. Star Warrior and Thantos' ENDGAME.

The only "natural" +5 finisher in the history of the game--an automatic success, every time. Monolith comes close but he isn't quite there yet.

That's the best in terms of raw numbers, but for my personal favorite, it's hard to beat the LEAP OF DOOM for markout value. I could always hear the crowd buzzing every time Mayhem threw an opponent out to the floor, wondering if he was going to go for it--with the buzz getting louder and louder when he started climbing to the top. The fact that he seemed to miss more than he hit didn't matter.

[jefft]

pete said:

This is easy. Star Warrior and Thantos' ENDGAME.

The only "natural" +5 finisher in the history of the game--an automatic success, every time. Monolith comes close but he isn't quite there yet.

That's the best in terms of raw numbers, but for my personal favorite, it's hard to beat the LEAP OF DOOM for markout value. I could always hear the crowd buzzing every time Mayhem threw an opponent out to the floor, wondering if he was going to go for it--with the buzz getting louder and louder when he started climbing to the top. The fact that he seemed to miss more than he hit didn't matter.

Good points.

[jcr48]

Encubus level 3 is tough to escape.