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Post by Cosmic Crippler on Sept 12, 2006 22:02:05 GMT -5
So does anyone think that #2 is going to be any different than the first?
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Post by Trent Lawless on Sept 13, 2006 4:07:20 GMT -5
Fedor's been off for a while, so I don't know if that's good or bad for him. I'll see what he looks like against Coleman (I do expect him to win that one) before I make up my mind on it. Mirko had a pretty good look to him the other night, though, so my guess is that the second go-round will be more competitive, even if the winner is the same.
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Post by Mad Dog on Sept 13, 2006 5:24:16 GMT -5
Eh, same result I think. CroCop might catch Fedor with a kick or something but CC's just too flawed as a fighter.
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Post by Darth Turkish on Sept 13, 2006 6:36:17 GMT -5
Darth Fedor by Force Choke!
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Post by Knapik on Sept 13, 2006 19:50:56 GMT -5
CroCop is too... FLAWED as a fighter? huh?!? Fedor shocked CroCop with his striking - a situation I don't think will be repeated a 2nd time. Fedor could beat him, sure, but CroCop has as good a shot as any to take him out.
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Post by Vanilla Gorilla on Sept 14, 2006 9:35:11 GMT -5
Fedor is the bestter fighter by leaps and bounds, saying Fedor is going to win is a given and an almost certainty, but CroCop like anyone could upset Fedor but it is highly doughtful!!! As for CroCop being flawed, sure he is because if he wasn't Fedor wouldn't have won the first fight, and to say that CroCop was shocked about Fedor's striking abilities then that is a pure example of CroCop not studying Fedor's tapes and not knowing his opponent, because we all know that Fedor can strike and those who don't must have a "Flaw"!!!
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Post by Knapik on Sept 14, 2006 23:43:27 GMT -5
Best sentence I've ever read.
Highly doutbful is an exaggeration. Despite their last encounter, CroCop IS the better striker. While CroCop has the best striking in MMA, he also has one of the best sprawls... so to say his losing is a given isn't giving credit where credit is due. Fedor is the #1 Heavyweight in the world, but CroCop is the #2 and the Pride Open-Weight Champion. I don't think it's a stretch to say CroCop has a decent shot at winning giving his recent performance over Silva and Barnett,
Mad Dog's saying CroCop is 'too flawed as a fighter' is different from your saying he's flawed because he lost, brusier. I'm sure he studied his opponent, but Fedor has never faced a striker the caliber of CroCop... because there isn't one.
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Post by Mad Dog on Sept 15, 2006 0:36:57 GMT -5
He could always get a flash KO and I'd say Fedor has a pretty questionable chin as guys like Fujita have rocked him in the past.
My main issue with Cro Cop is that he's easily bullied into the ring. He let a fairly inferior fighter in Mark Hunt do just that to him. Hunt just kept jabbing away and blasted CC a couple of times and the fight just faded away as the fight went on.
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Post by Knapik on Sept 15, 2006 1:29:39 GMT -5
Hunt is hardly inferior with wins over the #1 light heavyweight and #2 heavyweight in the world.. And he's arguably a better striker than CroCop (I forgot about Hunt!)
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Post by Vanilla Gorilla on Sept 15, 2006 7:52:27 GMT -5
Fedor shocked CroCop with his striking - I only stated that he is flawed because you stated that CroCop was shocked by Fedor's striking, when if you watch Fedor's fights it is quite clear he can strike and stirke very well, as for Fedor being the better fighter, look at their records, look at who Fedor has beaten, some of the guys Fedor has beaten are guys CroCop has lost too, and again lets not forget...Fedor beat CroCop!!! Hence Fedor is the better fighter, you are saying CroCop can win and that is true as is anyone beating anyone but the better odds of winning fall heavily with Fedor!!! |
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Post by Cosmic Crippler on Sept 15, 2006 10:19:51 GMT -5
I think everyone has some good points on this topic. The great thing about MMA is you just never know. Remember when Randellman KO'd Cro Cop? All I can say is Cro Cop is a different fighter than he was against Fedor in the first fight. Either way, I cant wait to see this fight.
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Post by Knapik on Sept 15, 2006 17:46:19 GMT -5
Good post, curlig.
I think we can stop discussing the fight now... you and I are on different wavelengths, dude.
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Post by Darth Turkish on Sept 15, 2006 19:30:14 GMT -5
Fedor has the most amazing amount of luck and the highest constitution I have ever seen. I really think he likes to get in "trouble" and pull out a way cool victory (Randleman, Fujita,Coleman).
I think CroCop has a very legit chance of beating Fedor. But he will have to bring his very best "A" game. Perhaps Fedor's layoff will be his undoing?
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Post by habbalah on Sept 27, 2006 2:31:23 GMT -5
Alright, not to really rain on the cro cop parade.... but what did Cro Cop do that was all that new? Beat up Josh B? Hell he did that twice already. Beat up MInowa? I'll give him credit for picking apart Yoshida and Wanderlei but that's what vintage Cro Cop is able to do.
Beat up peopl he has talent over. Cro Cop sence his first fight with Wanderlei has improved. No doubt. That was a good while ago.
Cro Cop can defeat anyone he has greater talent than his with relative ease (which is darn near everyone).
When he gets seriously challenged by someone better than him he folds. (Unlike Matt Hughes).
I can't ever see Cro Cop winning a fight coming from behind and pulling out an upset when he's in trouble. But hay that's just imo.
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Post by Knapik on Sept 27, 2006 2:46:14 GMT -5
No, CroCop was NOT able to do what he did to Silva when they had fought in the past. I think it's VERY evident he's becoming a better fighter. And I think it's inaccurate to say he folds when faced with a superior fighter... Silva is arguably a better fighter and certainly has a better track record. I
think second-guessing his heart or competitive drive would be a mistake. And even if he lacked either thing, one punch or kick from him and it can be over... so I would have to strongly disagree with you about his inability to end a fight late while in trouble.
I can't believe CroCop beat some of the best fighters in the world on his way to the Pride Open Weight Championship and people are saying "Big deal, what did he really do?"
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Post by habbalah on Oct 2, 2006 2:03:15 GMT -5
Alright (And I'll admit this one is kinda cheap) Minowa is a can. A super can, but a can none the less.
He beat Yoshida. He finished Yoshida. *Claps*. But are you honestly telling me this isn't something he wouldn't have been able to do already? He managed to nullify Yoshida from taking him down and beat him in a stand up fight. Cro Cop's take down defense has been for quite some time now, pretty darn good. It's why he's never lost to Josh B., Mark Coleman, or Heath Herring (to name a few). I've seen those fights. He was never in trouble.
Considering he's only faced two, three, how? He has Josh's number, and he bulked against Hunt... and guess what, today, right here, right now he still would. (Not mentioned Fedor, to easy of an example).
Now Wanderlei (the only thing really super note worthy he ever did in the tournament).
He looked like a million bucks kicking Wanderlei upside the head. But lets be honest Wanderlei was the under dog. Wanderlei specializes in killing 185 Japanese cans (calm down, I know he’s done more than that... It’s just sweet delicious irony to see the same sorta thing bight Wanderlei on the butt for a change).
Cro Cop is not A Japanese, B 185 pounds.
Cro Cop years ago fought Wanderlei when he was stilling getting his mma legs. Sense that day..... Yes, he is better than the Cro Cop that first fought Wanderlei that first time.
Is he better than the scared little girlie boy who ran away from Fedor in their first fight, where Fedor looked panicked? How? When he was trading blows with Fedor he was doing about the same amount of damage. I’ll give him that. Do you know what the difference was? Re-watch the fight if you got it. Fedor’s face never showed like he cared one bit when he was getting hit. Not even a little.
It’s like Fedor had a switch to attack and it was broke off in the forward position. As that fight dragged on you could see it in Cro Cop’s face that his confidence continued to sink all through out the fight. It was wonderful watching someone so in love with himself just crumble like that.
Now can Cro Cop beat Fedor? There is a way. If Fedor rushes back to the ring, and takes Cro Cop right now lightly... and shows up in anything less his normal consistent self...and if Cro Cop smells fatigue.. Weakness ... doubt... he will jump on Fedor (to qoute Randy Couture) like a rat on a cheeto.
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Post by Knapik on Oct 2, 2006 8:18:47 GMT -5
There are Japanese cans, but Minowa is NOT one of them. Smaller than CroCop, but Minowa has quality wins and wins over guys bigger than him too. Josh Barnett is one of the top fighters in the world, and you talk down CroCop's performance by sayinhg he 'has his number'?
Silva has only fought cans?? On what planet are Fujita, Sakuraba, Quinton Jackson, and Arona cans? Silva was BIGGER than CroCop in their fight and was not an underdog in their fight.
Calling CroCop a scared little girlie boy shows you just don't like the guy and your previous comments show you don't have any business analyzing a fighter's worth.
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Post by habbalah on Oct 2, 2006 18:14:54 GMT -5
He's beaten Josh 3 times. How can I not say he doesn't have his number? Wanderlei weighed more than Cro Cop in that fight. I wouldn’t say that was a huge bonus. Chute box time in again has proven that they have no business in heavy weight. From Ninja, to Shogun, to Wanderlei.
I said Cro Cop ran from Fedor like a scared little girl in that fight because well he did.
Re read what I posted. I said he was more than that, but I can dismiss at least half of those. Saku despite his fame truly belongs a weight class down from where Wanderlei is.
He didn’t beat Arona... Arona simply failed to defeat the champion convincingly so he more or less retained the belt (I agree with the idea of the champion getting the nodd in a close fight so I’m not complaining really). Quiton Jackson is a slack jawed hick out of Mephis... who mind you barely beat Ninja (I don’t argue with official decisions, but if you’ve seen that fight you’ll see Jackson is over rated). If Jackson fought Arona, or Liddel again today believe me he’d be on the losing end. He got lucky against Arona and Liddel has continued to improve his ability where as Rampage has lost more and more of his heart and determination.
Ah and Fujita, how was Fujita honestly suppose to beat Wanderlei looking back? Out box Wanderlei? Wanderlei’s ground work (which I actually like and give more credit than most) is more than enough to shut down Fujita’s.
Let’s be honest Fujita was never making it past the second round of that tournament.
I’ve repeatedly been willing to give credit to where it is due. It is no small feat to say Cro Cop can tool Josh. Maybe even Fedor can’t say that. But the mere fact your arguing about Minowa as a credible win for Cro Cop shows you lack objectivity. You could have at least conceded that point and moved on. Giving Cro Cop credit for beating Minowa would be like giving Chuck credit for knocking out... Ken Flo. And not even that.
The truth of the matter is Cro Cop got lucky cause of the tournament brackets. Styles make fights, and Josh allowed Cro Cop the chance to side step Nog.
Hay no problem. He deserves to be ranked at number 2. Does he deserve to say he's gotten better sense Fedor smacked him around the last time? Certainly not.
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Post by Knapik on Oct 2, 2006 21:41:26 GMT -5
Well we just disagree. No point in arguing since you just said CroCop was the #2 guy and that's all I'm trying to say.
And yeah Silva is much better on the ground than people give him credit for and I think his fight against Fujita was a great example of his skill and speed no the ground.
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Post by habbalah on Oct 3, 2006 19:35:49 GMT -5
Well I think it boils down to I really, really wanted to see Cro Cop fight Nog again.
I have seen Cro Cop improve in one area (In recent fights. I'm not saying he hasn't evolved from his mma start) Ground and pound. WIll it be enough? I guess we'll find out by the end of the year.
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IPPON!!
