Sorry if I don't' feel sorry for you

[gwffantrav]

Yeah, Chris I think it's accurate about Mary. You're right. I think Jews have the emphasis on God, Christians on Jesus and Catholics on Mary.

And it has nothing to do with faith. It's all about values and right and wrong. Just because someone is atheist, doesn't mean they have bad values. I listen to radio talk show host Dennis Prager all of the time and he always stresses that.

The problem, many in the country, about "half", really don't know what good and evil is anymore. Only what they "want" to think is good and evil. I think that's why "most of the half" seem to side with the felon/criminal/instigator or whatever you want to call it instead of the victim.

[jsanudo]

Lets slow down here. A couple of things are being said that are untrue. Christianity is an umbrella term that means a religion that believes Christ as the Savior and Son of God. Catholicism, just like Luthernism, Babtist, ect, are a subsection of Christanity. Most Christian religions are different due to ideological differences. But, their core values are the same. Catholics do not put an emphesis on Mary over God or Jesus. Catholics just put a different light on Mary compaired to other Christian religions.

[Chris Ingersoll]

jsanudo said:

Catholics do not put an emphesis on Mary over God or Jesus. Catholics just put a different light on Mary compaired to other Christian religions.

Which is what I meant (not sure where Trav was coming from). Most non-Catholic Christians don't consider Mary as important as Catholics do. She's not on the same level as the Holy Trinity, obviously, but she is still the focus of a lot of attention that she doesn't get from the other ideologies.

[gwffantrav]

I think Juston misunderstood what I was saying. I'm half Baptist, half Catholic. In Baptist, there isn't an "emphasis" on the Virgin Mary, more of Jesus. That wasn't to mean Catholics put Mary above God or Jesus. I should have clarified that more.

But Mary is more of an important part of the religion of Catholics than other Christian religions. I'm lucky enough to see both sides, and wow...there is a big difference, even under the Christian umbrella!

So Juston, coming from a half-Catholic, (I'm assuming you are), there wasn't any disrespect in that at all. I just wasn't clear on the statement

P.S. Now lets get back to bashing muslims!!

P.S.S. If anyone can't see that above statement is a joke...

[jsanudo]

Trav,

I took nothing you said as disrespectful. Even if you said "all Catholics are stupid", I wouldnt take it as disrespect. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I am just trying to give people an insight on a topic they may know little about.

[nelson]

yeah we get it.one question how can you be 1/2 baptist 1/2 catholic?doesn't make sense to me.kinda like me being half quaker half methodist.besides most religions come from one another.

neil

[gwffantrav]

LOL...well, I grew up Baptist and my wife is Catholic. So we don't pick one church to go to. We just go to both, but were married Catholic. My little guy was baptized Catholic

But there are people that are half/half. A guy at work I know is half Jewish(mom)/half Christian(dad)

But I was just pointing that out so I know somewhat about the faith. Not just someone bashing Catholics, which I wasn't

[pikemojo]

I was raised Catholic and now attend a Baptist church and really only refer to myself as Christian because I am not really sure where I "belong" other than that I believe Jesus is my savior and that makes me a Christian. I still believe some things that I was taught as a Catholic and have learned many things since and I hold both denominations at an equal.

[Big Bri]

I'm cool with any form of worship, as long as the person doesn't try to force it down my throat. Although, I do hold some hostility toward anyone who worships "The Greater Power" (Vince McMahon 1999, if you can remember that one)

[soug]

the fact is, and it's a sad one, humans will never get along!
it's not in our nature.

[Shon Maxx]

I find amazing, the idea that Christians in different sects sometimes think they are right and the rest are wrong. Years ago (when I was a Catholic), I'd get "attacked" by Born Agains, Witnesses, Baptists (actually that was my friend but I was with him), and just about anyone else. People in the same sect can't even get along sometimes. My friend once had to get explicit permission from his priest to go to another Catholic church! They were actually looking down on him because he was attenting a different church for the day (same exact sect)!

To those who think they are right and the rest of the world is wrong, all I have to say is, Get over yourselves! You don't have a clue, just like the rest of us!

(That was referred to anyone on this board.)

Take care,

Jay

[offspring515]

But isn't the very act of having complete faith in your chosen religion a way of saying that you are right and everyone else is wrong?

Not that you should go around spouting that off, or having that type of attitude, but I don't see anything wrong with the belief that your religion is the right one. That's why you chose it, and why you believe in it.

I know for a fact that most forms of christianity operate under the assumption that other religions are "wrong", IE there is only one god, and it is the Christian God.

---------

I may not be the best source for religious understanding though. I grew up as an "old regular" Baptist. That's basically a normal, everyday Baptist with lots of old fashioned rules tossed on top. Such as the women can't wear pants, cut their hair, wear makeup, etc etc.

Needless to say, once I was old enough to no longer attend, I stopped. I've only recently got back into organized religion. My wife is a member of a much more modern Baptist church, and I've really enjoyed going to those services, as there is a heavy focus on the things that matter (religion, God, our role in humanity) and less focus on what my wife is wearing on the lower half of her body.

[hawk]

Not to jump in...but I read something interesting in my Ancient history class the other day, that sorta relates.

In it's inception, Christianity did not have churches. It didn't have priests. It didn't have anything we use to define a religion these days. So why did Christianity become popular in the Roman Empire?

Because no matter who you were. Man, Woman, Child. It didn't matter your social class. It didn't matter what color you were. It didn't matter what religion you believed. If you lived your life correctly, you would make it into heaven. No questions asked, no money, no strings. You were PROMISED a spot alongside god, provided you weren't an evil bastard.

It was later, when religious leaders came along, that it was defined as Woman having secondary roles, and not being guarrenteed, and that onyl those who were Christians could make it in. Years after Christianity became a force, and not even persucution could stop it.

Shows how far things have come. It's quite sad.

[slamminsammy]

Sorry to say this but I can't stand when people bash muslims which is what this thread started off as. I'm a pentecostal and much like offspring I was raised in very old fashion standards. I didn't hear "worldly music" till I was 16. I don't attend now but did @ one point but my wife does. Anyway, I being a latin american can sympathise with these people as I have seen how this land was stolen from the native americans which I believe as descendants of them this land belongs to us. Most "americans" are from European bloddlines and all Europeans want to do is conquer everything in site and force their ways down peoples throat. History proves this. So for a minute step into there shows and look @ the bigger picture. Would you like it if Saddam came here to free you from a oppressive leader or would you rather do it yourselves. There is absolute no reason for the U.S. or anyone else to be in the middle east but the middle easterns. And before we start all this about if we let a tyrrant run rampant he can take over the world crap we all know who the real tyrrants are and it's already happening.
Remember the KKK were mostly all christian as well as alot of white supremecist groups and as mentioned the crusades and the history of this nation
Also on the catholic theme I think another difference is all their supossed saints (paganism)
Sorry if I offend anyone one but there are always 2 sides to a story

[gwffantrav]

Sorry KOTR, but after attack upon attack on us, we took it to them. That's why we're there. This isnt' all about Iraq. If anyone is honest, American and it's allies couldn't declare war on "radical islam", because there is no official state, unlike Germany or whomever in years past.

If you're honest with yourself, Iraq was chosen to be a central front in the war on terror. It had to start somewhere, and knocking off Hussein isnt' bad either. We couldn't just bomb every country these guys were from because "officially", it was individuals doing these in the name of islam, rather than nations/countries. I think it had alot to do with Iran, centralizing the terrorists and many, many other factors, bring some sort of democracy to the middle east not just to liberate Iraq. Many, many factors, but if you would say that, these "leftists" would even go more nuts.

And sorry, while many "white Europeans" may have did that in the past, there were many other countries trying to "take over". Muslims, mongolians, romans, just about anywhere in time, you could look for a group trying to make a move.

BTW, you seem to kinda criticize the US for doing this, like many others, but remember, what is the first country everyone runs to when they have some kind of disaster, crisis or need money. Us. Soooo, it's one of those things we have to protect our interest.

Sorry man...

[jsanudo]

KOTR, I respect your opinions, but disagree.

First of all, you state Europeans want(ed) to conquor everything. Name me a group of people who have never been to war over land. There isn't such a group. Even Muslims came from the Middle East and took control of Spain in the Middle Ages.

Second, I dont think anyone here deep down believes the attacks on the US were by regular Muslims. I believe everyone knows it was done by RADICAL Muslims. These are the people that are "bashed". I understand that not all Muslims are not radical as I hope you understand all Christians are not in the KKK.

Third, if we had an oppressive leader that did things like Saddam did, then damn right I would want someone to free me from his "leadership" if I could not do it myself.

Finally, how does having "supposed saints" make Catholicism a Pagan religion? I believe Paganism is defined as "One who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, especially a worshiper of a polytheistic religion".
Catholicism, as stated earlier in this thread, is a Christian religion. Plus, Catholics do not worship Saints. They see Saints as an example on how to live a good Christian life. While no Saint is perfect (they were all human), they do give you a good measuring stick on what you are doing in your life.

Last, if by saying "we all know who the tyrant is", you mean the US, then you are mistaken. I am sure a "tyrant" would not let you bash his foreign policy. Just ask the Iraqis who did the same thing between 1979 and 2003.

[slamminsammy]

I don;t want to get into all that in this thread because if I do I will be bashed for the things I believe, so we'll agrre to disagree on the subject

Has for the paganism term I was under the impression it meant to serve more than one god, I could be wrong, but I see many people pray to such and such to help them. I know I have met people that say Christians worship 3 gods because of the trinity belief. As for myself I worship only one God but I do it in the name if Jesus because he was the Messiah

I also respect your mens opinion, thank you for not taking it the hard way.

[stephenvegas]

Polytheism is actually the term that means worshipping more than one god.