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Post by gwffantrav on Dec 19, 2005 23:26:38 GMT -5
Really, I need to know. Do people know the difference between good and evil anymore!?!? I just wondered if they paid the same respect for those he EXECUTED.
God, please make this world right...sighhh
From Yahoo news
Hundreds Pay Respects to Tookie Williams By PAUL CHAVEZ, Associated Press Writer
2 hours, 12 minutes ago
LOS ANGELES - Hundreds of people converged Monday on the South Los Angeles neighborhood where Stanley Tookie Williams co-founded the Crips to say goodbye to a "homeboy" executed last week over the objections of supporters who said he had turned his life around.
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Williams, clad in a gray suit, lay in an open coffin at the House of Winston Mortuary as people quietly filed by with their heads bowed.
"Mostly everyone is out here because of his reputation," said Robert Collins, 27, who said he was a former Crips gang member. "Everyone knew Tookie was no angel. Everyone's just paying their respects to him."
A line of 200 stretched out the door shortly after the six-hour viewing began in mid-afternoon. More than an hour later, the line had dissipated but people were still streaming through.
Williams, whose execution was carried out over the protests of supporters who included celebrities and civil rights activists, spent his last years on California's Death Row renouncing gang violence and writing several children's books warning of the dangers of gangs.
See Love, a teacher with the Los Angeles Unified School District, said she had seen firsthand the way Williams' book "Life in Prison" had changed students' lives.
"Tookie's words were able to do what no judge or probation officer was able to do," said Love, 35. "I hope Stanley's spirit continues to live in the name of peace."
Williams, 51, was executed last Tuesday for the murders of four people during a pair of 1979 robberies. Although he had renounced his past as co-founder of the deadly Crips, he maintained to his death that he did not commit the killings.
A crowd lingering outside the mortuary carried signs and handed out flyers proclaiming his innocence.
Lori Tompkins, 48, of Los Angeles, said she came "to say goodbye to our homeboy and also give support to his family."
"We feel he was innocent and wrongly killed," she added.
The viewing was to be followed by a funeral Tuesday in Los Angeles. Organizers said those expected to attend included the Rev. Jesse Jackson, Nation of Islam Minister Louis Farrakhan and hip-hop artist Snoop Dogg.
Reading this makes me think it's April Fool's Day
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Post by Mad Dog on Dec 20, 2005 1:10:08 GMT -5
So far none of his advocates have been able to name even one of his victims. That should answer your question.
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Post by gwffantrav on Dec 20, 2005 1:24:27 GMT -5
Just in case anyone has forgotten what Tookie did and thinks he's a peaceful man, here are the names of his "victims" and a nice link you should check out. They are hidden for a reason. Click on the link at your own risk
www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/tookiewilliamsvictims.html
The victims:
Albert Owens
Yen-I Yang,
Tsai-Shai Chen Yang
and Yu-Chin Yang Lin
Plus remember these names....Jamie Foxx, Elliot Gould, Lawrence Fishbourne, William Baldwin, Bob Saget, Danny Glover, Bianca Jagger, Mike Farrell, Harry Belafonte, Ted Danson, Ed Asner, Russell Crowe, Richard Dreyfus, Mario Cumo and everyone's favorite Jesse Jackson.
These are some of the half wits/has beens who were protesting on behalf of "Tookie". Remember, if someone kills your wife/husband, child, mother/father, sister/brother and they receive the death penalty, these are the names who'll be supporting your killer.
Plus, it has nothing what the left claims....black and white...it's what RIGHT and wrong. |
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Post by pistonhurricane on Dec 20, 2005 8:38:16 GMT -5
My intent is not to start a war here, merely pose a question.
At what point can a man find redemtion?
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Post by Mad Dog on Dec 20, 2005 8:48:51 GMT -5
That depends from person to person. Though in Tookie's case he didn't even take the most basic steps of someone who has reformed would've. You can't reform if you don't admit your guilt.
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Post by Chris Ingersoll on Dec 20, 2005 9:19:46 GMT -5
My intent is not to start a war here, merely pose a question. At what point can a man find redemtion? More importantly (in the context of the death penalty -- of which I am generally supportive), at what point does redemption cease to become an option? "Finding Jesus" while you're in prison for murder doesn't impress me. "Finding Jesus" before you attempt murder and therefore not going through with it does. |
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Post by pistonhurricane on Dec 20, 2005 9:24:59 GMT -5
That depends from person to person. Though in Tookie's case he didn't even take the most basic steps of someone who has reformed would've. You can't reform if you don't admit your guilt. Thats a good point. Capital punishment, for me, is the same as abortion.... I havent had to confront it face to face. Ive always aproached it from an "Ill cross that bridge..." mindset, but if i were to form an opinion (at this point in time) it would be just that: A case by case, person by person situation. Even if Tookie didnt kill those people, he still helped form one of the most detremental, violent orginizations of the past 40 years. Im not saying that on its own mandates a death sentence, but lets not give the guy a pat on the back either. (hey! Thats my hundredth post... im a main eventer!) |
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Post by Mad Dog on Dec 20, 2005 10:39:12 GMT -5
I've never been impressed by the jailhouse conversions to Christianity. It seems they always want to get out of their punishment right afterwards. If they had really become a Christian they would never try and get out of it.
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Post by Joe on Dec 20, 2005 17:52:38 GMT -5
Being knowledgable about the effect that gang violence has on communities, I definitely think that Tookie Williams owes society a sizable debt for introducing the Crips to America.
That said, Williams maintained that he did not commit the murders of which he accused. I honestly don't see how someone would admit to other similar actions but would not own up to these.
The truly disturbing thing about the Williams sentence and execution is that it reinforces what many feel in this country. Williams would have never been executed had his victims been Black. Hell, he probably would have never been caught if all his alleged victims were Black. He messed up and got accused of killing a white person and two Asians (I can't recall the race of the fourth victim).
This is part of the reason why so many people, "leftists," I believe Trav would call them, object to the execution of Williams.
Personally, I think if a man is convicted and sentenced, and his appeals are exhausted, he should be executed. It is the conviction and sentencing that bother me, not the death penalty.
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Post by Big Bri on Dec 20, 2005 18:29:36 GMT -5
Forget the death penalty. How does anyone truly suffer if they're executed? They should be locked into a sealed room with Carrot Top & Triple H, with the voices of Lita and Stephanie McMahon also being piped in randomly. With Carrot Top & Triple H never shutting the f up and the ladies' voices being annoying as all hell, the criminal would beg to be exterminated in no time. But then, Adam Carolla shows up and the criminal enters into a tormented state he could never even imagine. This thing has "reality show" written all over it. It could make millions and end crime as we know it. Put the leaders of Israel & Palestine in this room and within 45 minutes we'd have world peace, I guarantee it.  |
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Post by Mad Dog on Dec 20, 2005 19:41:13 GMT -5
How do you figure that. Black on black murders make up for a huge chunk of the murders committed in this country. If you're black you're most likely going to be killed by a black male.
Also this is a two way street. If Tookie was white none of these Hollywood types would be sticking up for him.
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Post by soug on Dec 20, 2005 19:55:22 GMT -5
Finding Jesus" while you're in prison for murder doesn't impress me. "Finding Jesus" before you attempt murder and therefore not going through with it does.[/quote]
have to agree.
Did any of you guys hear of the Australian model who was caught with drugs in Indonesia and was thrown in jail. See could have been executed but all of a sudden she became a muslim.She wore the head piece. ( dont know what its called)and everything else all the time. She was released ( i dont think for her conversion, but for other reasons)and the first thing she did was take off the head piece!! It's amazing what desperate people "find"!!
The death penalty is a touchy issue. If you asked me am I for it, I'd probably say no. But then again I see these murderers and think to myself they do deserve to die!!but is this punishment enough??
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Post by gwffantrav on Dec 21, 2005 10:50:08 GMT -5
"Alleged" Joe? lol. Funny how that word is now used..lol
I think you have the "he would have never been executed if he murdered a black person" taken straight from the leftist textbook 101. They, IMO, want everyone to think whites are a bunch of racists who hate blacks. I get tired of the white/black crap. To me, a felon is a felon, white, black, mexican, oriental, or whatever and have no place in society.
Plus, what freaking proof do you have of he wouldn't have been executed if his victims were black. Talk about "alleged". Everyone I know who supports the death penalty fully supports a thug white being executed for killing an innocent black person. Heck, I'd be happy to throw the switch. It's the extreme left and hollywood who want everyone to think that whites are still a bunch of hooded klansmen in the 1950s. Geez...
I saw everyones good buddy Al Sharpton (google good Al on how he became "famous"...it's fascinating) on O'Reily last night saying ol' tookie deserves his redemption. I just wonder if he would support the redemption for a white person if they had killed a white?
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Post by gwffantrav on Dec 21, 2005 10:53:03 GMT -5
Well, Big, that would be considered "torture" if he was in the room with that group...but then the wack jobs would complain about that since all we do is "torture" all of our prisoners anyways. But thats another post for another day!  |
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Post by Joe on Dec 21, 2005 12:57:25 GMT -5
"Alleged" Joe? lol. Funny how that word is now used..lol I think you have the "he would have never been executed if he murdered a black person" taken straight from the leftist textbook 101. They, IMO, want everyone to think whites are a bunch of racists who hate blacks. I get tired of the white/black crap. To me, a felon is a felon, white, black, mexican, oriental, or whatever and have no place in society. Plus, what freaking proof do you have of he wouldn't have been executed if his victims were black. Talk about "alleged". Everyone I know who supports the death penalty fully supports a thug white being executed for killing an innocent black person. Heck, I'd be happy to throw the switch. It's the extreme left and hollywood who want everyone to think that whites are still a bunch of hooded klansmen in the 1950s. Geez... I saw everyones good buddy Al Sharpton (google good Al on how he became "famous"...it's fascinating) on O'Reily last night saying ol' tookie deserves his redemption. I just wonder if he would support the redemption for a white person if they had killed a white? Perhaps you get tired of the "white/black" crap because you have no idea of what it is like to be Black in the United States. Statistics I have read in the past (this was for a class I had two years ago so I would really have to dig to find the sources) do support the notion that a Black man is far more likely to be executed for killing a white person than another Black. This is not Hollywood telling me this, these were actual numbers that can be looked up. I don't think that all white people are "a bunch of hooded klansmen in the 1950s," but I do believe that many white seem to believe that America suddenly became a fair and equal country following the passing of a couple laws in the 1960s. I never said Tookie Williams did not deserve the death penalty for his crimes. My life has been impacted by the negative actions of Williams, so I definitely feel he should be punished severely. My initial point was that a Black person is far more likely to be sentenced to death for killing someone who is white than for the murder of a member of his own race. |
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Post by gwffantrav on Dec 21, 2005 13:10:47 GMT -5
OK bitter
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Post by Chris Ingersoll on Dec 21, 2005 13:18:58 GMT -5
Statistics I have read in the past (this was for a class I had two years ago so I would really have to dig to find the sources) do support the notion that a Black man is far more likely to be executed for killing a white person than another Black. This is not Hollywood telling me this, these were actual numbers that can be looked up. While I'm not questioning this, I do want to ask if you know whether or not this takes the number of each scenario into account. For instance (and these numbers are just for an example, obivously), if there were 10 cases of black men murdering white people and all ten resulted in executions, and 20 cases of black men mudering black people but only 15 of those resulted in execution, are those statistics just comparing the 100% rate vs. the 75% rate even though there were more actual executions (and, indeed, murders) in the latter case? I'm not sure which would be the "better" scenario. Just asking for clarification if you have it. |
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Post by Joe on Dec 21, 2005 13:36:09 GMT -5
The best I can recall, it was an actual number of inmates on death row in the United States.
To Trav-
Were you saying I was bitter in your last post or were you typing "OK better," and accidentally typed an "i" rather than an "e?"
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Post by ringsyde on Dec 21, 2005 13:53:15 GMT -5
To try to answer your question, Chris, according to ACLU, FBI, Federal prison and state-by-state statistics on prison sentencing and the death sentence, black men are 3 to 5 times more likely to be sentenced to death for interracial murder than they are for intra-racial murder. There have been several cases within the last decade in which black men have killed numerous (other) black men and women and received a lighter sentence than other blacks within the same legal jurisdiction who have klled a single white. You may research this info on any of the aforementioned sources (cites), and you may also reference the Census Bureau and each state's capitol office. As for Tookie Williams, I'm frankly surprised there is a controversy. None of these powerhouse Hollywood types is on camera mourning for his victims. And I don't just mean those he killed with his own damnable hands (although they should NEVER be forgotten). The life he lived and promoted has led to the death and destruction of so many people of color, and they are the other victims that haven't been afforded recognition in the wake of Williams' discovery in Jesus, goodness and light or whatever he claims to have found while living off my dime. The lifestyle, attitude and actions of the crips, the bloods and other gangs have victimized so many of my people (through drug usage and distribution, murder, rape, single parent family life, welfare dependency and an obsession over material gain that results in constantly taking violent and failed shortcuts, just to name a few things) that no amount of self-discovery, improvement and spreading of the word of goodness and light could make up for what Brotha Williams did. I for one will not foget that we have him to thank for the promotion of the gangsta thuggery that has further tightened the grip on opportunities for young black men and women. I believe people can change and even become great. I also believe that if you blame the "other" man for your suffering, disadvantages and lost opportunities, you need to think about how the "brother" man contributted to these misfortunes. Tookie Williams spit on people like my father and mother and many of the hard working, moral, conscientious black people who I grew up around when he created a goon squad whose only interest was self-promotion and self-gratification (at the detriement of the entire African American culture and at the cost of countless thousands of lost and ruined lives on all sides of the racial line). Commemerate Tookie? How about F# k Tookie!! Steven L. Williams "belie' dat!" |
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Post by Joe on Dec 21, 2005 14:50:31 GMT -5
Steven-
I had this conversation with someone the other day. The fact that he was the co-founder of America's most notorious street gang is reason enough not to get too irate over the man's execution. His founding of the Crips was what I meant when I mentioned the impact Williams had on my life.
I know far too many young men back home who had their lives ruined, and ended, indirectly by the actions of Williams. But as I pointed out, it is not the countless deaths of Black people, as well as the harm done to Black communities in areas such as Los Angeles, Seattle, St. Louis and Little Rock, that Williams was executed for, but rather the deaths of a white person and two people of Asian descent, and that is the truly disturbing aspect of this case, and the United States' criminal justice system as a whole.
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