SWARM IS A GOOD GUY

[tafkaga]

joe said:

Tafkaga-

Originally, they had a section on the main site called "Tim's Brainstem," in which they mocked Tom's name, creations and supporters. Hell, the author of the column even wrote it in a manner very similar to Tom's style.

I never saw that... must have been taken down before I ever found the site the first time. If I would have seen that originally then my attitude toward them would have started out much different.

From what I have seen, the moderator deleted the post about the book, but that is all. There are still quite a few negative references to COTG and its fans in the forum.

He's deleted some more other than that, because some of those threads I was involved in suddenly disappeared. I don't think we should really expect them to remove all traces of COTG negativity on their forum. After all we don't remove WW negativity from ours. People have a right to say what they do and don't like... only when it's inflammatory should it get removed.

I reaalize you like to give all the WW guys the benefit of the doubt about everything but I think it is safe to say that the guests who posted about WW here were not members of this board who was "fueling the drama." Not only does that make no sense, but there are ways to tell that is not the case. One poster on their board, "Gazoo," was on here a few months prior to the start of the WW mess acting like an absolute idiot. Soon, he was on their forum. A couple of the other guests here are now registered members of their board who have posted in a very sales-rep type manner.

It's not that I try to give them the benefit of the doubt... I just try to be fair to all parties. There has been wrong done on both sides. WW's started it no doubt, but some COTG people fueled it, and WW's retaliated. WW's is mostly to blame for what happened and I won't defend the crappy way that they've marketed the game. But I don't really care about the WW's community and I don't expect anything from them. I had higher expectations for the COTG community... and one member of this community in particular put us on equal ground with them when we should have stayed above them the whole time.

I'm glad you take the word of their administrator, who I believe may also be half of their registered members, because they have proven to be such a stand up group to this point. Whenever you discuss this subject, you clearly do so in a way that attempts to divert any blame away from the people at WW.

That's completely false and there's zero evidence to back that up. You don't know the conversations I've had with their administrator or what was said in them. Never have I said that WW's was exempt from the blame... only that I was disappointed that some COTG'ers went over there and fueled the retarded flaming.

You again point out that the negativity was, in part, caused by people from this forum flaming them on their turf. You fail to acknowledge, however, that if their supporters (or creators) hadn't shown up on this forum pushing WW and bashing COTG, there would have never been a problem.

I in fact have acknowledged that. Again, only thing I've said all along is that just because WW's fans/owners/creators/whatever want to act like a bunch of idiot kids doesn't mean that COTG fans have to dignify it by sinking to their level.

No one on this board had any knowledge of the product until a "guest" showed up talking about their website and how he was nervous about them "talking about us." That same guest later flipped the script and began talking about how superior WW is to COTG.

All true. So? Your point is that WW's started it... yeah, I think everyone by now knows that. Even their forum administrator knows it and has acknowledged it in discussions I've had with him.

I recall you pointed out to someone on here that he should try prying his lips off someone else's a$$. Perhaps you should follow that same advice.

-Joe

You're really reaching, Joe. Have a nice day.

[ringsyde]

Not since being locked in a mall with rival Cubs and White Sox fans back in 2002 have I observed so much heated discussion over something so pointless.

Some of you are acting like your best friend is suddenly dating your ex-girlfriend from five years ago.

The Wrestle War jabs, insults and sneaky tactics are so in the past. What they do now only matters if you care. Many of you say you don't, so why in he// are you still harping on it?

Thank God the Sox won the series. Now the southsiders have a leg up on the Cubs/Sox argument. I think Tom won the big one years ago, too. You remember, don't you? You did write out the order form, send the money and keep coming back.

Cubs and WW; now there's a race to see who improves first.

[tafkaga]

I agree Rings... this issue should be dead, yet I keep hearing about it. It's one thing to discuss it but it's another to still be shooting blame at members of this forum. I tried to answer Wad's question fairly because I thought the issue was dead enough so as not to spark another debate... boy was I wrong.

[tafkaga]

neil said:

what is the name of the post soug?
neil

I think the post that soug is talking about that they edited to make him look stupid is this:

"no problem.do everyone a favour and delete my childish comments from this forum. have a good one - i never have...i am a wanker aussie with no admirable traits whatsoever. once i tried to screw a wombat and had me willie gnawed off...haven't felt too great since... i am such a coward...i have no life, i just play stupid games and hang with retards...i am a laughing stock"

I thought that you were just being fascetious in that post, soug. I had no idea that it had been edited. That's pretty lame.

[soug]

;wasnt that bad when i first read it!
hmmm they must of did even more editing!!!
think I'll ring my solicitor.

[Chris Ingersoll]

tafkaga said:

joe said:

Tafkaga-

Originally, they had a section on the main site called "Tim's Brainstem," in which they mocked Tom's name, creations and supporters. Hell, the author of the column even wrote it in a manner very similar to Tom's style.

I never saw that... must have been taken down before I ever found the site the first time. If I would have seen that originally then my attitude toward them would have started out much different.

Yeah... that part was particularly low and was probably the most damning thing they did, whether intentionally (as many here suspect) or not (as the creators claim).

He's deleted some more other than that, because some of those threads I was involved in suddenly disappeared. I don't think we should really expect them to remove all traces of COTG negativity on their forum. After all we don't remove WW negativity from ours. People have a right to say what they do and don't like... only when it's inflammatory should it get removed.

For the record, that's the policy we try to enforce here.

[gatekeeper]

And the reason that they put anti-COTG stuff on their board is because they're trying to win this battle of similar games. I liken it to the Monday Night Wars between WCW-WWE.

Your products are similar, so you want to eliminate your competition and become the only remaining option.

[pistonhurricane]

Good things can be born from competition, but have a healthy respect. Take the high ground when i you can.

[Joe]

tafkaga said:

neil said:

what is the name of the post soug?
neil

I think the post that soug is talking about that they edited to make him look stupid is this:

"no problem.do everyone a favour and delete my childish comments from this forum. have a good one - i never have...i am a wanker aussie with no admirable traits whatsoever. once i tried to screw a wombat and had me willie gnawed off...haven't felt too great since... i am such a coward...i have no life, i just play stupid games and hang with retards...i am a laughing stock"

I thought that you were just being fascetious in that post, soug. I had no idea that it had been edited. That's pretty lame.

Your buddies.

The only person that could have done the editing was the moderator, but, hey, according to you, he's a pretty stand-up guy.

[Chris Ingersoll]

There is more than one moderator over there.

[tafkaga]

Exactly, thank you Chris. I'm pretty confident that it was a moderator other than the one I'm acquainted with that did this.

Joe, you're just shooting blanks now bud.

[hawk]

What annoys the hell out of me in regard to this issue, is the fact that this will not DIE because of someone's opinions. So what if Gordon wants to post there? Thats HIS decision, and it seems to have made him a social outcast on these boards. Since when do we alienate people for THEIR OPINIONS?!

So they bashed COTG. Big deal. Thats how marketing works, and they've appologized for it. What more do you guys want? Them to go "Oh, I'm so sorry. Our game sucks, we're going to buy COTG!"? Their trying to sell a damned game. I don't even understand why this is an ISSUE anymore, or why this has been so blown out of proportion that it caused an issue between two people which ended up with one person banned who is very liked around here.

Just LET. IT. DIE. They have their game. We have ours. If they want to insult the game, then let them. We're supposed to be better then they are, aren't we? Everytime this debate pops up, it just makes the whole community look worse.

If we're better then they are, with a superior product...then lets just be the bigger people and move on, shall we?

[Joe]

tafkaga said:

Exactly, thank you Chris. I'm pretty confident that it was a moderator other than the one I'm acquainted with that did this.

Joe, you're just shooting blanks now bud.

I'm not shooting anything. According to you, the person who created the game had no idea what was going up on his website and the moderator ( I don't know if they are the same person or not) has nothing to do with the editing of people's posts. You do, however, give him credit for deleting negative posts. I'm not shooting anything, I am simply pointing out things that I notice in your posts.

As far as Hawk's comments about letting the situation die, I have no problem with that. The only reason I posted in this thread was because I find Tafkaga's opinions concerning WW amusing. Actually, many of his opinions amuse me.

[tafkaga]

joe said:

I'm not shooting anything. According to you, the person who created the game had no idea what was going up on his website and the moderator ( I don't know if they are the same person or not) has nothing to do with the editing of people's posts. You do, however, give him credit for deleting negative posts. I'm not shooting anything, I am simply pointing out things that I notice in your posts.

I have no idea if they are the same person or not either. At first I thought that they were but now I don't. You all obviously think I know a lot more about WW's and the people behind it than I do. I know the forum administrator entropicengine and that's it. I don't know if he's the owner, creator, artist, or what. All I know is that he's dealt reasonably with me in the past and has made an effort to stop the COTG flaming. But as Chris and I have both told you, there are other moderators on the boards besides him. In fact one of those moderators I am not very fond of... he could have been the one to change soug's post.

As far as Hawk's comments about letting the situation die, I have no problem with that. The only reason I posted in this thread was because I find Tafkaga's opinions concerning WW amusing. Actually, many of his opinions amuse me.

I'm glad they're amusing, but if that's all you're going to say then why bother? If you have some valid evidence that I've done something wrong by posting on the WW's forums or by being interested in their product, present it. Otherwise, why keep this up?

[Joe]

There is nothing wrong with being interested in their product.

I have only made comments about the way that you have stated your opinions concerning some of their actions and posted statements concerning COTG. I said you seem to place a lot of the blame for the "beef" on members of this forum, and you disagreed with my assessment of your statements.

[tafkaga]

I say the same thing now that I've said all along. Wrestling Wars started it. A few COTG posters helped fuel it. I'd say that Wrestling Wars is more to blame. I have good relations with their forum administrator, and without trying to sound like I'm tooting my own horn, I think that I've been instrumental in influencing them to tone down the COTG attacks. You can't even say "Tom Filsinger" or "COTG" over there any more... it's filtered out and replaced by <competitor> and <competitor's game>. Going over there and flaming them escalated the flaming... as did their coming over here and flaming us. It was never the solution. That's why I established a good repoire with their Admin who turned out to be a reasonable guy.

[soug]

if cotg fans want to get into ww, its their choice. ( i'm definitly not one of them!!) but you have to realize, if you play on both teams you're going to cop some flack.

[tafkaga]

See, I understand exactly what you're saying soug... but I look at it quite differently. COTG has a product. WW's has a product. COTG is not a team and neither is WW's. They are both entertainment businesses. You buy one... you're a customer. You don't buy... you're not a customer.

I am a huge fan of the Fire Pro wrestling series and own three of their games. I participate in the American Fire Pro Club. I am what you would consider a loyal fan in that I mark out for basically anything they put out. At the same time, I own four of the Smackdown games. I like the Smackdown games even though they're not as cool as Fire Pro. I can go to the Smackdown boards and talk about the things that I don't like as much about Fire Pro without the Fire Pro Club saying that I'm letting down the team. Why? Because although the Fire Pro games are great, they're not perfect. They are not the all-encompassing wrestling game that eliminates the desire to play anything else. Neither is COTG. It's a great game. I love it. I've put many hours into playing it... but I don't remember ever joining a "team" or signing a contract that I couldn't enjoy another product in the same genre. Tom certainly never made up those rules.

So in conclusion, there's zero reason why anyone should catch any flack for wanting to play Wrestling Wars... or for Wrestling Wars fans wanting to play COTG. They're wrestling games. We are customers. Tom is not going to trash anyone for playing Wrestling Wars. Neither should anyone on this board. It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

[soug]

tafkaga said:

See, I understand exactly what you're saying soug... but I look at it quite differently. COTG has a product. WW's has a product. COTG is not a team and neither is WW's. They are both entertainment businesses. You buy one... you're a customer. You don't buy... you're not a customer.

I am a huge fan of the Fire Pro wrestling series and own three of their games. I participate in the American Fire Pro Club. I am what you would consider a loyal fan in that I mark out for basically anything they put out. At the same time, I own four of the Smackdown games. I like the Smackdown games even though they're not as cool as Fire Pro. I can go to the Smackdown boards and talk about the things that I don't like as much about Fire Pro without the Fire Pro Club saying that I'm letting down the team. Why? Because although the Fire Pro games are great, they're not perfect. They are not the all-encompassing wrestling game that eliminates the desire to play anything else. Neither is COTG. It's a great game. I love it. I've put many hours into playing it... but I don't remember ever joining a "team" or signing a contract that I couldn't enjoy another product in the same genre. Tom certainly never made up those rules.

So in conclusion, there's zero reason why anyone should catch any flack for wanting to play Wrestling Wars... or for Wrestling Wars fans wanting to play COTG. They're wrestling games. We are customers. Tom is not going to trash anyone for playing Wrestling Wars. Neither should anyone on this board. It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

i agree with what you're saying. it's human nature to protect what you are loyal to, thats why you will cop flack.it may not be justified but it will happen.
now lets get back to rolling those dice!!

[canadianpittbull]

Would that be rolling flack dice?