Build a GWF All Star Set

[The Wise King Solomon]

Lets say Tom decided to put together a special edition GWF All Star set. It would have 12 characters, featured in their prime, released with new color photos. There would be in-depth biographies for each character (in place of the usual guidebooks) that covers info never before released that gives a COMPLETE description of each character before, during & after their GWF career.

Who would you want to be a part of it?

Although it's difficult to limit it to 12, here are my pics:

1. Chaos: the man, but a man of mystery. We don't even know his real name. I'd love to see him fletched out.

2. Omega: The founding father of the GWF. I'd love to learn more about his background.

3. Paragon: so much unfulfilled potential. I think he'd make for a great story.

4. Thunder: from slave to superstar to legend.

5. Vengeance: his prison background would be a cool read.

6. Pegasus: from gambler to legendary hero.

7. Star Warrior: my favorite from the Omega clan.

8. Wolf: enough said.

9. Thantos: what's the story behind the young Cosmos?

10. Matador: a perfect all star. Why did he go to Dimension X in the first place?

11. Desolation Factor: My favorite tag force, I'd love to see more depth applied to them.

12. Eclipse: All I know is that Rising Sun had a rough upbringing. I'd love to learn more.

If you could chose any 12 stars in the ENTIRE history of the GWF, who would you chose to be part of an all star set?

[GalactiKing]

Spike, Brute, Massacre, Mayhem, Vengeance, Thunder, Overkill, Malice, Disaster, Santon the Loner, Wolf and Bounty Hunter

[Mike M]

1. Chaos

2. Omega

3. Star Warrior

4. Thantos

5. Morpheus

6. Thunder

7. Wolf

8. Spike

9. Massacre

10. Brute

11. Dreggs

12. Sleeze

A little heavy on the Glads, but I think that overall it's a good mix of singles, tag and hard core.

[Knapik]

COTG All-Stars

1) Thantos
2) Star Warrior
3) Spike
4) Wolf
5) Massacre
6) Chaos
7) Thunder
8) Matador of M83
9) Pegasus
10) Disaster
11) Bloodline
12) Euritar

[gamtime247]

1-Thantos
2-Chaos
3-Wolf
4-Spike
5-Omega
6-Brute
7-Massacre
8-Star Warrior
9-Bishop Hell
10-Matador
11-Mandrill
12-Incredible Badger (I always think of the guy as tito santana, so underappreciated)

[JimSteel]

1-Wolf
2-Star Warrior
3-Chaos
4-Thantos
5-Spike
6-Brute
7-Massacre
8-Matador of M83
9-Disaster
10-Pegasus
11-Thunder
12-Godsend

[The Wise King Solomon]

Great work everyone. This has been an interesting thought experiment. I hope the other promoters have enjoyed reading the various lists as much as I have, as my enjoyment has been both personal & deep.

In our collective wisdom, there seems to be a consensus built as to whom qualifies as an all star. With literally hundreds of characters having come & gone in COTG, it speaks well of the top vote getters legacies.

Here are All Star candidates who's names have appeared multiple times on various promoters ballots:

Wolf (6 times)
Thantos (5 times)
Star Warrior (5 times)
Chaos (5 times)
Spike (5 times)
Massacre (5 times)
Thunder (5 times)
Brute (4 times)
Matador (4 times)
Pegasus (3 times)
Omega (3 times)
Disaster (3 times)
Vengeance (2 times)

Dark Horse All Stars (one vote each)

Mandrill
Bishop Hell
Bounty Hunter
Incredible Badger
Paragon
Morpheus
Eclipse
Dreggs
Sleeze
Godsend
Rack
Ruin
Euritar
Bloodline
Malice
Mayhem
Santon
Overkill

Very interesting indeed.

[jsanudo]

My 12 are:

1. Chaos
2. Matador
3. Omega
4. Spike
5. Morpheus
6. Thantos
7. Paragon
8. Pegasus
9. Dreggs
10. Sleeze
11. Rack
12. Ruin

[Darth Turkish]

Oh my! So many to choose from!

My 12 are:

Thantos
Omega
Matador
Wolf
Spike
Chaos
Bishop Hell
Code Enforcer (Manslaughter)
Mace
Dreggs
Ursa Major
Rising Sun

[Thad Killian]

Okay, here I go....

1. Star Warrior
2. Thantos
3. Omega
4. Morpheus
5. Bishop Hell
6. Spike (whooo...the poster boy)
7. Brute
8. Massacre
9. Comrade Terror/Dreadnaught
10. Chaos
11. Vigilante
12. Janus the Overman (In my opinion, the most underrated)

[Joe]

1) Wolf
2) Star Warrior
3) Thantos
4) Chaos
5) Spike
6) Massacre
7) Brute
8) Alpha Force
9) Pegasus
10) The Matador of M83
11) Prodigy
12) Thunder

[COTG Historian]

Here's an interesting statistic. Below are the names of actual members of the GWF Hall of Fame who at this moment have not secured even one vote on any promoters All Star ballot:

Battering Ram
Commander Sam
Dragonmaster
Parsec
Tantalis
Exo-King
Actagon
Proteus
Krakan
Marcel De Sade
Massif
Solaris
Lord Nexus
Billy Jo Boxer
Soldier of Fortune
Pulsar

When push comes to shove & the pressure is on, what does this say about the veracity of their legacies?

[GalactiKing]

Dragon Master would be on mine. Mine was a bit of a joke as I picked all Gladiators (or teammates of Gladiators)

[Randall]

Guest-COTG said:

Here's an interesting statistic. Below are the names of actual members of the GWF Hall of Fame who at this moment have not secured even one vote on any promoters All Star ballot:

Battering Ram
Commander Sam
Dragonmaster
Parsec
Tantalis
Exo-King
Actagon
Proteus
Krakan
Marcel De Sade
Massif
Solaris
Lord Nexus
Billy Jo Boxer
Soldier of Fortune
Pulsar

When push comes to shove & the pressure is on, what does this say about the veracity of their legacies?

By "Promotor's All-Star Ballot" you mean this thread?

If so, I'd say that it says this is a small percentage of the overall number of promoters in the Galaxy, and therefore not representative of any such "All-Star" compilation.

I could be wrong, though.

[Mike M]

Guest-COTG said:

Here's an interesting statistic. Below are the names of actual members of the GWF Hall of Fame who at this moment have not secured even one vote on any promoters All Star ballot:
[snip]
When push comes to shove & the pressure is on, what does this say about the veracity of their legacies?

What it says is that (a) we've got a small sample size of the voters participating "off-the-cuff" and (b) there's a lot more than 12 hall-of-famers. It also seems like people were more predisposed to put in 12 singles wrestlers (with the exception of Brute and Massacre) than to include tag team guys. If people were required to put in more tag-team wrestlers in or more "slots" were available, my guess is that more tag team wrestlers would have made it. Also, some legit hall-of-famers in other sports would have a hard time making an "all-time" team as well. Look at Harmon Killebrew. He's a legit HOFer in baseball who would never make the top three at his position (I'll just throw out Ted Williams, Rickey Henderson and Barry Bonds as examples of who would be ahead of him), much less in the starting 9 or 25-man roster. That doesn't speak ill of him- just how great the others are.

Battering Ram- see Harmon Killebrew
Commander Sam- see Harmon Killebrew
Dragonmaster- see Harmon Killebrew
Parsec- hard to judge this guy without playing all the Classics years
Tantalis- See Parsec
Exo-King- see Harmon Killebrew
Actagon- see tag wrestlers
Proteus- see tag wrestlers
Krakan- see Harmon Killebrew
Marcel De Sade- see Harmon Killebrew
Massif- see Harmon Killebrew
Solaris- he's a manager, so that figures too
Lord Nexus- see Harmon Killebrew/tag wrestlers
Billy Jo Boxer- see tag wrestlers
Soldier of Fortune- see tag wrestlers
Pulsar- see Harmon Killebrew

[TDalton]

Okay - this is slightly off topic - but what's the problem with Harmon Killebrew? First of all, he played third base and first base, not outfield. The reason he's in the baseball HOF is because he was one of the greatest players of his time. He was no Brooks Robinson at third, but he led the league in home runs 6 times and drove in 100 runs 9 times. He had 573 career home runs (when that meant something) and was one of the most feared hitters in baseball. He wouldn't rank in the top 3 at first or third, but if that was the case, only 27 people would be enshrined at Cooperstown. Next time, pick on Rabbit Maranville.

There, I feel much better now. Carry on...

[The Wise King Solomon]

Great job everyone. Here is an update in the All Star ballot standings:

Thantos 9
Chaos 9
Spike 9
Wolf 8
Matador 7
Star Warrior 7
Massacre 7
Thunder 6
Brute 6
Omega 6
Pegasus 5
Morpheus 3
Bishop Hell 3
Dreggs 3
Disaster 3
Paragon 2
Eclipse 2
Vengeance 2
Rack 2
Ruin 2

Dark Horse Nominees (one vote each)

Prodigy
Janus
Ursa Major
Alpha Force
Comrade Terror
Mace
Manslaughter
Mandrill
Bounty Hunter
Incredible Badger
Sleeze
Godsend
Euritar
Bloodline
Malice
Mayhem
Santon
Overkill

Newcomers feel free to cast your ballots!

[Mike M]

TDalton said:

Okay - this is slightly off topic - but what's the problem with Harmon Killebrew? First of all, he played third base and first base, not outfield. The reason he's in the baseball HOF is because he was one of the greatest players of his time. He was no Brooks Robinson at third, but he led the league in home runs 6 times and drove in 100 runs 9 times. He had 573 career home runs (when that meant something) and was one of the most feared hitters in baseball. He wouldn't rank in the top 3 at first or third, but if that was the case, only 27 people would be enshrined at Cooperstown. Next time, pick on Rabbit Maranville.

There, I feel much better now. Carry on...

Continuing off-topic for a moment.....

You're right, Tim. Killebrew did play more games at third and first, but he also spent the better part of three seasons of the middle of his career in left (470 total games in the outfield). Substitute Brock, Yaz or Kiner for Killebrew in my example if you prefer.

If you look at him at first, he falls behind Gehrig and Foxx, plus maybe a couple other guys (depending on your opinion). At third, Schmidt, Matthews, and Brett surpass him (maybe Robinson too if you value defense highly).

My point was that even a GREAT, legimate HOFer like Killebrew would have a hard time making a top 9 or top 25 list in baseball. I wanted to illustrate how being left off a list of 12 meant nothing, but being included in said list was truly special. I think that we both feel the same way about "Killer". Certainly no offense was intended to one of the greatest power hitters that the game has ever seen.

[Knapik]

Mike has caught a super dose of the correct!

[Thunder Fire Driver]

First my ballot:

1 Thantos
2 Chaos
3 Star Warrior
4 Wolf
5 Matador
6 Thunder
7 Pegasus
8 Spike
9 Omega
10 Alpha Force
11 Rack
12 Ruin

Mike said:

"My point was that even a GREAT, legitimate HOFer like Killebrew would have a hard time making a top 9 or top 25 list in baseball. I wanted to illustrate how being left off a list of 12 meant nothing, but being included in said list was truly special."

I have to disagree. By limiting the choices to only 12, the pattern that is emerging in this thread reflects each voters highest standards. Certain characters (Thantos, Chaos, Spike) appear to be meeting this exalted standard in the minds of most, others meet the standard in the minds of some, and others just don't seem to meet it at all. If guys from all three groups are included in the SAME Hall of Fame, it points out a problem.

The whole point of any Hall of Fame is to honor those with distinguished accomplishments. The initial induction process is what sets the standard. It's either high with a raised bar, or low with shallow credibility.. This is where I see a problem with the GWF Hall of Fame, particularly with the quality of some of the earliest inductees, which has caused an amalgamated approach to standards.

Looking back at how many characters/game years were available back when the original GWF Hall of Fame was started, the historical size of the roster was obviously much smaller than it is today. Putting aside whether or not there was a right period of time to wait before creating a HOF, the fact that there were relatively few game editions to gage the depth of the nominees in effect yielded a much lower standard of inclusion than one would face had voting began today (where there are over 30 game editions & hundreds of characters to chose from).

Were the very first votes for induction cast today, I suspect that guys like Pit Viper, Solaris, Billy Jo Boxer would NOT get in...at least not on the first ballot. I don't believe this could be attributed to promoters having short memories, because in this thread guys from the Classic sets like Omega & Morpheus seem to be racking up the votes. I also wouldn't attribute it to bias against tag teams, as Brute, Massacre, Rack, Ruin & Dreggs are all gaining individual votes, despite being primarily known as tag wrestlers.

I think the obstacle a guy like Proteus would likely face would be that given a larger historical perspective, it's very difficult to justify his importance on an exalted level. His inclusion just isn't merited.

If you look at the Wrestling Observer HOF, a legit legend like Bob Backlund (who actually headlined the most profitable territory in the country for 6 years) struggles & fails get in, but in the GWF HOF a mid card guy like Billy Jo Boxer is able to cruise right in? It just doesn't make sense.

You used Harmon Killebrew as an example, but the analogy doesn't fit with many of the early inductees. Someone like Marcel de Sade, compared to his peers like Star Warrior, Alpha Force or Wolf, was nowhere near as dominate a superstar in the GWF as either a Killebrew or Yaz, or Brock, or Kiner were.

Nor was Sade on the level of a Lou Thesz, or Farmer Burns or Ric Flair. Chaos, Thantos & Spike meet that standard, but a Marcel de Sade does not. He was in actuality a low to mid card competitor in his prime, and more importantly, inconsequential in the overall scheme of things. So why is he standing in the same HOF as Omega?

It's off putting to see characters like Massif & Exo-King given the same HOF status as Thantos, when while they competed in the same time frame, they were clearly a notch below. A Harmon Killebrew....Battering Ram NEVER was. Thankfully, aside from the head scratching early inductees, the more recent inductees have been more Killerbrewesque, meaning the top stars of their time.

I'd attribute that to the fact that a larger historical roster has increased both the standards & depth of perspective voters use in making their decisions.